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+--- Thread: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b (/showthread.php?tid=6258731)
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - SIM-1866423 - Dec 18, 2023
Because of ordinals at least tons of people will stay because of these transactions which is good for market stabilization.Most funny part is every single coin out there tried to fix that transaction fee solution yet all big ones already reach 1-2$ fee too, lol.First one solve this problem permanently will be gem.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - xPlutus - Dec 18, 2023
Imagine buying a coffee for $3-4 but paying network fee $20 lol
Real circus
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Mambaonjail - Dec 18, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 05:47 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: I have relieving news for you - this problem was already fixed with the release of the Lightning Network back in 2018.
For Bitcoin to become truly widespread, it needs to be usable worldwide. Many people still struggle to understand BTC, and making it more complex is counterproductive. This is a self inflicted setback. If I try to explain Bitcoin to my grandpa, he'll probably be bewildered, especially if we talk about the Lightning Network, that would be a whole different level. Cmon guys.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Mambaonjail - Dec 18, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 08:00 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: You're right, but human evolution eventually eliminates those who don't adapt. Bitcoin is only 15 years old and Lightning is only 6 years old. I remember 10 years ago there was no "self order" kiosk at McDonalds, now it's the opposite: There's no human at the counter, there's only touchscreens.
Thats also true, but with ETF Spot approval (seems to be) i don't know if this will get adopted from large Companys if the fees is so much high atm.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Omniscient - Dec 18, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 05:47 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: I have relieving news for you - this problem was already fixed with the release of the Lightning Network back in 2018.
From my wallet right now can I send a LN Payment at a reasonable fee?
Saying LN solves the problem doesn't really make it true. It's an option that circumvents the problem by creating a different problem.
Looks like fees are down to 250 sat/b. Paying more than about 20-30 sat/b is unreasonably high imho. I've already lost a chunk of money because I was forced to do a few transactions. I can't just earn BTC and not be able to spend them.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Omniscient - Dec 18, 2023
You keep saying it helps. I can't figure out how. It's frustrating to me, very much so.
I'm opening a channel again (2nd attempt) with Acinq network from my Electrum wallet. I'm paying $10 fee and the channel has about $500.
But here is the issue. I have $2000 in the wallet. I believe I can only send $500 total, am I right about that? I could have just sent the whole $500 for a $10 fee (200 sat/b). So what good does this option do for me?
Help me understand. You keep saying it's great, low fees. I have not experienced that. I don't see how. I just keep getting fucked with fees.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Marvelous - Dec 18, 2023
The worst part about this is BTC’s community will be 50/50 complete opposite ideas. Nothing will get changed until things get much worse before it more than likely hard forks again.
Most hate to see it.. its ironic to me.
BTC is digital gold and nothing more.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Omniscient - Dec 18, 2023
Yeah LN is complete BULLSHIT LIE.
Just opened a $500 channel. Says I can only send $330. Cost me $10 to open the channel. And I have no control over the fee when I close the channel so that's likely gonna cost me $100 because these FUCKING LN assholes that run the nodes will gouge you.
I could have just sent the $500 for $10 instead.
The way LN continues to be explained to me. I would save money if I was doing VERY small transactions persistently with the same party or if I used the channel to also accept payments.
There is also the issue of how to set my BTCpay server to accept LN payments (not even sure I want that).
LN is incredibly frustrating.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Omniscient - Dec 18, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 10:50 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: Don't use Electrum. No one uses Electrum (for Lightning), so it's very undeveloped and under tested. Try Phoenix Wallet.
If you have $1500 in your on chain wallet and $500 in your Lightning channel, then you can only send ~$490 with Lightning. You have to keep 1% as collateral and enough to pay an on chain fee for closing the channel.
Paying to open a channel is a one time expense. Once you have a Lightning channel open, you can transact with other Lightning users for effectively free. If only one of you is using Lightning, then it's not useful.
I'll try Phoenix wallet but realistically it seems to function for LN normally.
The comment that opening the channel is a ONE-TIME expense is ridiculous. Because it's the exact same one-time expense of either consolidating my wallet transactions or just sending all the funds to an exchange. I save NOTHING, ZERO, NADA. Which is what I think you don't get.
Let's say I get 20 $20-$30 BTC payments a week that are non LN (on-chain) into my wallet. How does LN save me any money when fees are incredibly high? It FUCKING DOESN'T. Because I'm always going to have pay the on-chain high fee to make those funds into an LN channel. The exact same money I'd pay just to send the funds or even just swap them into LTC.
You keep responding to complaints about high fees and saying that LN is the solution. Yet, it's NOT TRUE. You have yet to explain how in my scenario I'm going to save anything.
The only real way, would be if I only accepted LN payments which is just ridiculous and I may as well just not take BTC at all.
You're a smart guy, how about you explain how I'm able to save money in my scenario?
Again...20 $20-$30 BTC payments per week from Bitcoin on-chain. And I do what with LN to lower my fees?
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Omniscient - Dec 18, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 01:02 PM)Focus Broken Wrote: I agree it doesn't make sense to take on chain BTC at all for $20-30 amounts. Even if someone was a maniac and chose to eat a disproportionately high $10+ fee to pay you, it still costs you an equivalent amount to spend it, so it's a double edged sword.
Accepting LN payments means your costs don't multiply for each payment you receive. You would be right to predict this excludes many users who have not upgraded to LN either, or users whose exchanges do not support it yet (specifically, Coinbase and Crypto.com).
It sucks to grind your teeth and upgrade, but it's not worse than switching to an entirely new blockchain just to chase empty block space that will run out as soon as the chain gains meaningful adoption.
BTCpay supports LN. I don't yet have it enabled because I'm still figuring out the benefits. I'm not very confident that it will be widely used. At high fee periods like now I start to get a lot of LTC transactions. Also some wallets/exchanges offer flat fees for payments (bundled) so the senders often don't care about fees.
Often it feels like I just can't win. I may end up setting up a 3rd party invoicing system again (nowpayments.io) so that I can offer more chain options. Flexibility seems key.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Vеrt - Dec 18, 2023
Yeah, not a fan of the fees. I've been sitting on bitcoin for a while because it just costs too much to move it to swap it.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Mambaonjail - Dec 19, 2023
(Dec 18, 2023 10:50 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: Don't use Electrum. No one uses Electrum (for Lightning), so it's very undeveloped and under tested. Try Phoenix Wallet.
If you have $1500 in your on chain wallet and $500 in your Lightning channel, then you can only send ~$490 with Lightning. You have to keep 1% as collateral and enough to pay an on chain fee for closing the channel.
Paying to open a channel is a one time expense. Once you have a Lightning channel open, you can transact with other Lightning users for effectively free. If only one of you is using Lightning, then it's not useful.
and then we complain that cryptocurrencies don't become a digital currency used world wide, thank fuck, it's better to send cash via post than to send crypto money, guys the digital age must simplify our lives, not make it difficult. Yep, of course i still believe in crypto and my wallet is full of crypto, but I remain objective.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - StuffSneak - Dec 19, 2023
My BTC also been stuck at couple of places its just not viable to move it. I really hope the fees come back down soon.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Swip3r - Dec 19, 2023
Send the fees higher, you can call these inscriptions spam, but the hype will eventually (like always) die down, and fees will stabilize.
You can't "spam" BTC forever, all I see here is a free market for blockspace working as intended, if you get priced out.. Well, adapt or wait.
That being said I rarely spend my BTC, so I'm sure it sucks for people that actually want to transact P2P.
LN still has a long way to go to become "user friendly" since I'd argue BTC isn't even user friendly yet, I do still believe we're extremely early.
RE: Bitcoin Fee 600 sat/b - Swip3r - Dec 19, 2023
(Dec 19, 2023 09:27 AM)Focus Broken Wrote: Miner detected in the chat 😆
Can't lie, I'm loving the hashprice.