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GL1TCH3D's Headphone Sanctuary! - Printable Version +- Hack Forums (https://hackforums.net) +-- Forum: Tech (https://hackforums.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=444) +--- Forum: Computing (https://hackforums.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=88) +---- Forum: Computer Hardware (https://hackforums.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=87) +---- Thread: GL1TCH3D's Headphone Sanctuary! (/showthread.php?tid=3760665) Pages: Pages
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GL1TCH3D's Headphone Sanctuary! - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 [img]http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag299/Trogmeister/Header-WIP_zpsffe1cd25.jpg~original[/img]
Section heading 1.5)Table Of Contents:
* - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 Introductions
2.1) About myself I see many threads asking for advice on headphones so I'd like to try and help members here pick the right headphones for their needs. Why should you listen to me? I've been an audiophile for a couple of years. I've been to two local head-fi meets (a group of audiophiles get together with all their gear and let others try it) where I've tried the majority of high-end headphones (grados, beyers, audezes, sennheisers, hifimans, etc). I've also been to audio shows where different companies come to show off their products. The most recent one I visited was SSI which featured a room with over 100 headphones to try as well as Woo Audio with the Stax SR009, Stax SR007mk2 and other top of the line headphones with the Woo Amps. 2.2) Equipment I have Owned or Currently Own In terms of ownership, I've owned the following headphones (this list doesn't include headsets): Sony XB500 Bowers and Wilkins P5 Beyerdynamic T5p Grado SR325i AKG Q701 Shure SE425 Shure SE535 Sennheiser HD800 Audeze LCD2r1 Hifiman HE6 Stax SR007mk2 Sennheiser Momentum Audio Technica ESW11LTD Chord and Major Rock Stax SR407 JH Audio Roxanne Universal Fit Along with that I've owned other pieces of equipment like dacs, amps, sources: Sansa Clip Zip Parasound 1500 dac Yulong d100mk2 dac/amp Stax srm1mk2 electrostatic amp JDS Labs ODAC+O2 combo iPod Classic 5th gen iPod classic 6th gen iPod touch 1st gen iPhone 4 Asus TF201 Desktop computer 2.3) Why I'm here to help you guys Now, keep in mind it's impossible for people to be completely biased when discussing headphones. You see it online all the time: "No, get beats by dre" These people are what I like to call IGNORANT SWAGFAGS because they're buying or recommending products based on popularity/shiny plastic or "swag value" or reviews of other ignorant swagfags. Let's take a logical stance here, if someone has only ever tried one pair of headphones, what is the best pair of headphones that person has ever tried? Well, I can say without a doubt that those single set of earspeakers would be by far the best because, quite simply, this person has never tried anything else. Now if that person goes online and starts raving about how good that pair of headphones is, should his input really matter? How does he know what a "good" pair of headphones is if he's never compared headphones? 2.4) The problem of bias This is exactly the problem I face everyday. One person's preferences will not match another person's preferences. A lot of reviews are baseless in that there's no base for comparison. How can I say if the bass of one pair of headphones is good if I've never tried a pair of headphones with good bass? I try my best to avoid biasing my recommendations but it's impossible to be completely unbiased in this area. For example, I've had bad experiences with beyerdynamic in the past. I bought a $1000 pair of headphones that had a major design flaw that caused them to break a month in. They fixed it without a question and after my reviews and complaints, have fixed this flaw but the fact that such a flaw came up is quite a negative emotion that I have against Beyer. So why am I doing this? While my intentions for other members are good, my main purpose here is to teach people to stop being ignorant swagfags which, in turn, will promote the development of quality goods rather than junk goods with high profit margins. 2.5) What are DACs, Amps and Headphones? Don't expect a full, detailed explanation of how each of these works, I'm just giving you "basically, this is what 'x' does" DACs Short for Digital to Analogue Converter, processes digital data provided by a source (CD player, computer software, etc.) and creates a corresponding analogue signal which is an electrical signal. Amps True DACs don't have volume control and only produce really weak signals which would not be sufficient to drive headphones or speakers. So we need an Amplifier which will amplify this signal to levels that can drive headphones or speakers. Now you have things like power amps, preamps, amps, monoblock amps, but for the purposes of headphones, don't worry about these things. Headphones A set of diaphragms suspended in or around the ear that are pushed / pulled through electromagnetism. The electrical signal passed to the headphones from the amp is what causes the electromagnetism that pushes/pulls the drivers. 2.6) The Audio Chain Now there's something I'd call the complete audio chain and the consumer's audio chain. And by chain, I meant the various points that sound passes through to reach your ears. Complete Chain: Instruments and Vocals + Other sounds (background, reverberations, etc.) > microphone > analogue EQing and filters > ADC (opposite of a DAC) > digital processing > digital file > distribution through printed CDs and download servers > optinal conversion of original data file into a compressed and/or lossy format > reading of the file from a source component > DAC > Amp > Headphone/speaker diaphragms > environment > ears Now that's quite the chain just to get a sound to playback. Since a lot of these aspects aren't even controlled by consumers, for the purposes of this thread, we'll simplify the chain to: Source > DAC > Amp > Headphones Essentially your source data file + method of output to your DAC which processes the digital data and creates the analogue signal to send to the Amp which amplifies the signal which is then sent to the headphones. Each piece of the chain is important for the end sound quality. No matter how good the source, amp and dac, if the headphones are bad then the final output will be bad. The chain is only as good as its weakest link. What you'll find in this thread: 1) A form to ask for headphone advice. Just copy and paste the form, filling in your requests for various options. 2) User reviews from people on this forum (and possibly others). If you wish to leave a review, make sure you put "Review" in big letters at the top of your post and go on to talk about what you're reviewing. Make sure to discuss past experience with headphones, how they sound, how comfortable they are, how portable, if they improve with an amp and anything else you can think of! 3) Discussions on any headphones you want to discuss * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 Headphone request form and information regarding the form (please read it all if you don't know much about headphones):
Please use this form when posting a request: Code Budget: So let's go through each aspect. Budget is quite straight forward, how much are you willing to spend on your system? I say system because a lot of higher end headphones need a DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter) and amplifier to bring out the best in them. I ask as one of the questions if have an amplifier since it can really make a difference. A dedicated sound card on the computer is generally a good alternative. Closed or open back, isolation and portability. These aspects concern where and how you will use the headphones. If you need very portable headphones then headphones such as akg k701 (open backed, long cable headphones) are out of the question. Isolation is how well the headphones block outside sound and keep sound from escaping the headphones. If you're going to use these in a quiet place with other people around, headphones with good isolation is important since you'll avoid other people being disturbed by your music. Closed back means that the cup or housing for your driver is solid and does not let sound pass through while open back headphones do not have a solid backing to block sound and will leak sound (your music can be heard by people around you) and have very poor isolation (you'll be able to hear everything around you). Do not ask for open back then tell me the headphones are for portable use. Some people think that open back headphones will be okay for portable use but I say otherwise. You'll be really disappointed when you're on a bus or metro and you can't hear your own music. Some advantages of the closed back are the isolation and bass impact. On the other hand, open back headphones usually have much wider soundstages and improvements on sound quality as well as a more natural, airy sound. What I mean by airy is that closed back headphones often feel like you're in a chamber listening to the artist. Durability is how strong the headphones should last if you plan on throwing them around. I guess most people will say good/high but if you're okay with getting something a bit more delicate that you have to take care of you can get some very nice sounding headphones like the Sony SA5000. Sound preference. This is important in choosing the right headphones. The sound is (or should be) the most important aspect for people. What kind of sound do you like? Do you want headphones that can shake your head with bass or have crisp clear treble, have forward mids, etc. Describe what kind of sound you're looking for as best as possible. Describing sound: The following website has a very nice graph to show you where different instruments and such fall on the frequency response. *See Describing Sound Link in Further Reading section 5.1 Use the chart on that page to give yourself a better idea of what kind of sound signature you like. (For example, if you really like listening to female vocals, mention that! Or maybe you want to feel the impact of all the drums or be able to feel the strings gliding on a violin) Let's start with the bass or lows. You have the deep bass/sub bass or the higher bass, also referred to as mid-bass or bass. To describe the bass, first do you want a bass emphasis? Something with a powerful bass? Or a high quality bass that is well controlled, defined, deep, etc. A high quality bass DOES NOT mean that it's bass heavy. Some other descriptors include punchy, deep, boomy. Next is the mids/midrange. This is generally where a lot of guitar notes, vocals and other instruments fall. If you like having powerful or forward vocals, then you'll like something with a more forward midrange. Some descriptors include smooth/buttery, forward/recessed. Lastly you have the treble/highs. You'll see some piano/violin notes and other instruments here (as well as parts of vocals, especially female vocals). Some descriptors include sparkly, bright, crisp/grainy. Size: do you need headphones that are small and fit in a bag? Or is a full sized headphone okay, just list any limitations Ear preference: some people dislike having the headphones touch the ear. Others absolutely love having on-ear headphones. If you have any requests for on ear, over ear, in ear or anything else, list them here. Usage: Now a lot of people have come here asking about gaming headsets which is fine, I'm happy to help with that too. I'm going to make the distinction between gaming and regular headphones. Gaming headphones are specifically made with drivers tuned to boost certain frequencies such as footsteps to offer this so called ingame advantage. Then, you have a split in gaming headsets for competitive or enjoyable use. The ones for competitive use have leaner bass so that the bass from explosions and such will not overpower the other frequencies and you'll still be able to hear footsteps and gunshots fairly well while the enjoyable ones really boost the bass so you feel explosions and such but you might miss out on gunfire and footsteps. If you're looking for certain headphones but you have trouble finding a good price, let me know! * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 Frequently asked Questions:
1) Frequency range. Most novice headphone buyers think, the larger the frequency range, the better the headphones. This is simply not true. The audible range is generally considered to be 20 hertz to 20khertz (*See Frequencies in Further Reading 5.1) While you may be able to feel frequencies below 20hertz and hear frequencies above 20khz if you don't have much ear damage yet, really it's only important that the audible frequencies be present in the headphones. This is why most cheapy headphones will have the standard 20hz-20khz frequency response. One good example is the Sony SA5000 headphones which have a frequency response of 6hz to 100khz. They're not the best headphones ever. They're good but not the best. Another thing to keep in mind is drop-off which is the point where headphones will no longer produce audible sound within their frequency range. To give you an example, my new Beyer T5p has a drop off at around 35hertz (tested with a sine wave at 50% volume with no amp straight from my TF201 tablet) meaning any frequency lower than 35hz is not audible under normal conditions, even if the frequency range shows that I should be able to hear the lower frequencies with them (the T5p have a range of 5hz to 50khz). The best indicator of sound signature (such as which headphones have more bass, or treble, etc) is the frequency response chart. Here's an example of the T5p chart: [IMG]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/gamefx/frequencychartfort5p.png[/IMG] Notice how at 35hz the 0to100hertz peaks? 2) they must be shit because they look bad. Must I say more? Many people, especially beats users, think that looks are more important than sound quality or that looks determine sound quality. The looks of the headphones are just the shell that the drivers are put in. In coding, it's the user interface. Just because the user interface is nice it doesn't mean the program will work any better. The best production set of headphones right now is the Stax SR009. *See Stax SR009 in Further Reading for the link They may not look like much but they're still better than beats by a long shot! Interested in reading more about celebrity headphones like beats and soul? *See Celebrity Headphones in Further Reading 5.1 3) burn in Many people don't know this but headphones take a lot of regular use to reach their potential. This period is called the burn in. Many people open a new pair of headphones and feel disappointed with them. Though, the headphones may require lots of burn in. The Bowers and Wilkins P5 which I owned for 8 months, I would say needed over 200 hours of burn in. I was honestly really disappointed in them right out of the box but after having used them for over 300 hours I can say they were great after the burn in. Now here's the problem, you only have 14 days to return them but you hear you need over 200 hours of burn in to hear them at their best. You would never be able to use them for 200 hours in 14 days. What to do... what about letting them play 24/7 without wearing them? A lot of audiophiles leave the headphones plugged into a source such as a cd player for however long they want to burn them in while they're out at school, work or sleeping. Interested in reading more about burn in? *See Burn-in in Further Reading 5.1 4) Gaming headsets: Gaming headsets are incredibly popular nowadays because they're directed at people who want to play games more competitively and have some simplicity to them. What is a gaming headset? It's a pair of headphones with a mic glued onto them. Well, that's not completely true. Usually gaming headsets also have certain frequencies tuned to either make the game more exciting or to give better sonic advantage such as making footsteps louder. Is this good or bad? Well, neither is completely true. Due to the frequencies being tuned to give sonic advantages or make games more exciting/immersive (usually by making the bass boomy for explosions), this often means that music will be off-tune. Another problem is, it's harder to notice key factors of sound quality during a game. I have a pair of skullcandy holua earbuds. They're by far the worst things I've ever heard. Though, they're good enough to make watching videos and stuff from my tablet tolerable. When listening to music when you have a good reference point (the reference point being good headphones that you've used to give you an idea of what high quality audio sounds like), it's much easier to see the faults/flaws/lower quality sound produced from a headset. Now, if you've never bothered to listen to music your entire life and never plan to, yea, a gaming headset is nice and simple, having the mic built into it and some of them having simple cross platform functionality. Though, plugging in standard headphones with a 3.5mm jack to your xbox/ps3 isn't as hard as it seems. Most TVs nowadays have audio output through RCA (red/white outputs). With the use of a male rca to female 3.5mm cable (costs like $1 on amazon) you can suddenly plug your headphones directly to the TV and use your standard headphones to play on your console. And since most headphones are better in terms of quality than headsets at the same price, just getting a nice pair of headphones + a cable (if necessary. If using it with a computer, you could just use the regular 3.5mm jack) would yield better results than getting a headset and won't limit you to just gaming, but will yield better results for music too. Good options for gaming headphones: Audio Technica AD700 ($100) AKG Q701 ($250) * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 5.1) Further Reading Describing Sound: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm Burn-in: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break Frequencies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequency Stax SR009: http://www.wooaudio.com/headphones/stax/sr009.html Celebrity Headphones: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/celebrity-headphone-deathmatch 5.2) List of groups that I will not serve: Studio and L'appel du Vide because of the user Stay Plural for the following post: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4408445&pid=42010917#pid42010917 L'appel du Vide again for the user Popstar Ahri for the following comments: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4421866 Legion for the user ๖ۣۜNiely in the same thread: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4421866 What to do if you want good advice but are part of a group that I am refusing to help? Do some of your own research or read some of the 300 odd pages that I have helped to this point. There are some requests that show up often (headsets and headphones under $200 are good examples). I made it a rule to post here and not PM me so that past requests remain public for everyone to see. * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 Reviews:
Here's a list of reviews I've written in this thread. For lack of space I'll link to the post containing the review rather than copying it here. Shure SE425 and SE535 hi-fi earbuds: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2290442&pid=23830589#pid23830589 Fiio E17 portable Dac/amp combo: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2290442&pid=23710469#pid23710469 Beyerdynamic T5p high-end portable headphones: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2290442&pid=23378589#pid23378589 Grado Sr325i open-back headphones: https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2290442&pid=23884719#pid23884719 Audio Technica M50 (first version): https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2290442&pid=24705243#pid24705243 InnerFidelity Wrote:Review from Tyll xD GL1TCH3D Wrote:Useless Junk - Beats Headphones * - Jeremy Corbyn - Sep 18, 2013 Et c'est fini! Now to remove my posts. Good luck! Glitchy know's what he's talking about! Read the whole thread. It's brilliant so far. Can't wait for it to be done! Just wondering, with the burn-in time, would it work if you set the volume very, very low? * - SimpleMindedJacks - Sep 18, 2013 I am buying these skullcandy SLYR headset wonder what you think of them get them for 59.99 instead of 79.99 there are gaming headset * - Pury - Sep 18, 2013 Wow this thread is back again? i remember when the first one had like over 1000 comments. Good job Glitch keep up the work! * - Shivam Amin - Sep 18, 2013 So.. I got the Fiio e11 Amp for my (soon to come) Pro700MK2s. I read elsewhere that you recommend the Fiio e6. Should I return the e11 and get the e6? Also, I'm planning on getting a DAC in a few months and would like to know a good one that is < $100 on Amazon, or around $200 on any website that takes Paypal. :) * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 18, 2013 (Sep 18, 2013 04:32 PM)Shivam Amin Wrote: So.. I got the Fiio e11 Amp for my (soon to come) Pro700MK2s. I read elsewhere that you recommend the Fiio e6. Should I return the e11 and get the e6? I can sell my current dac for paypal ;P The e11 is by far better then the e6. The e6 doesn't really have much power and is much more suitable to lower impedance headphones. (Sep 18, 2013 08:10 AM)Sherlock Holmes Wrote: Et c'est fini! Not as much for the volume question. The whole point is that the diaphragms loosen up and it's better if you turn it up a decent amount. (Sep 18, 2013 03:11 PM)SimpleMindedJacks Wrote: I am buying these skullcandy SLYR headset wonder what you think of them get them for 59.99 instead of 79.99 there are gaming headset Skullcandy headphones are terrible. I don't have any experience with the slyr but from experience with their other pieces, I'd pass. The plantronics gamecom 780 is the same price and probably better. * - Shivam Amin - Sep 19, 2013 (Sep 18, 2013 07:05 PM)GL1TCH3D Wrote: I can sell my current dac for paypal ;P What DAC, how much? I might be able to take it off your hands :) * - GL1TCH3D - Sep 19, 2013 (Sep 19, 2013 02:14 PM)Shivam Amin Wrote: What DAC, how much? I might be able to take it off your hands :) It's the Parasound 1500 dac. It's quite large and only meant for home use but if you're interested we can work something out. Though, it's be far the best dac I've used under $1000 so far. * - Shivam Amin - Sep 19, 2013 (Sep 19, 2013 02:27 PM)GL1TCH3D Wrote: It's the Parasound 1500 dac. Damn, that's much out of my price range. I was thinking of a more portable DAC for my android under $200. Any suggestions? * - xh3lar - Sep 19, 2013 I strongly suggest buying some higher quality headphones instead of 10$, it makes a huge difference, even though the investment is a little bit higher. Great thread. Currently I own a pair of Senheiser CX-300 II and I want some over-head. Budget: $60-$80 Closed or open back: doesn't matter They're gonna be used mainly on my phone(currently a Galaxy S2) and my computer. Other details don't matter. I was looking at Audio Technica ATH-M50 however the price is almost double in Europe compared to the US price. |