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+---- Forum: Deal Disputes (https://hackforums.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=111)
+---- Thread: Deal Dispute Policy (/showthread.php?tid=6224532)
Deal Dispute Policy - Omniscient - Oct 13, 2022
Effective today, October 13th, 2022, I will be personally reviewing all NEW Deal Disputes. Scammers will get banned, invalid Disputes marked as so, and deals which are questionable I'll try to help resolve. In some instances I will give the party time to refund or provide service/product as part of the HF Contract.
This is the moment that for 15 years I have avoided but realistically the Contract system was created with this day in-mind.
Does this make HF Marketplace safer against scams? I don't believe so. I'm almost positive that a lot of accounts will be wrongfully closed and that false accusations will be persistent. But sometimes you gotta give your audience what they want.
I will be making the appropriate adjustments in the Help Docs and stickies.
Please note that you still need an HF Contract to open a Deal Dispute. I will only be reviewing official Disputes. That data in the Contract such as blockchain addresses for payment and terms are going to be vital in my decision making.
I will attempt to be quick about reviewing Deal Disputes but please do not send me a contact asking to look at your Dispute. There could be a 2-3 day waiting period for any new Dispute to be reviewed.
Thanks you.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Bullup - Oct 13, 2022
Honestly, you becoming a part of the contract system, makes the system pretty much perfect.
It's something that people have always wanted.
I'm surprised that you are gonna dedicate all that time though, as it will cost a lot of time for sure.
Honestly, this is going to be really good for the site.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Blazin - Oct 13, 2022
This is awesome news, and will make new members feel much more safe here without a doubt.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Herion - Oct 13, 2022
Oh damn, that's great. I am sure it'll make the marketplace a better place.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Omniscient - Oct 13, 2022
(Oct 13, 2022 02:28 PM)Bullup Wrote: Honestly, you becoming a part of the contract system, makes the system pretty much perfect.
It's something that people have always wanted.
I'm surprised that you are gonna dedicate all that time though, as it will cost a lot of time for sure.
Honestly, this is going to be really good for the site.
Technically I don't think this will take up a great deal of time. It's literally one open dispute per day on average. Which is very good. A lot of disputes do get resolved by members. The system works as-is but I'm tired of the appearance I'm not doing enough. Perception does matter. If this action makes people feel better, I suppose why not. I'm actually okay with being an asshole and closing a load of accounts. I already do that anyways. I just closed 10 upgraded accounts for example. No fucks given.
Time will tell if this has any real impact on making HF "safer" or more accessible to people. Noobs are still going to get scammed off-site. Veteran members wishing to do an exit-scam are still going to do those too. But I suppose quicker action means less people get scammed, that's the hope.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - webdev77 - Oct 13, 2022
(Oct 13, 2022 02:39 PM)Nintendo 64 Wrote: If anything this will just enforce members to always deal on site. I know I have a few clients that I message off site but I guess that'll have to change don't want to risk my account for a false accusations and it's better to have a paper trail through Convo/PMs. I'm not against this at all but it will change my way of doing deals to cover my ass.
Everyone should be dealing on site only anyways. 🙃
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Omniscient - Oct 13, 2022
(Oct 13, 2022 02:39 PM)Nintendo 64 Wrote: If anything this will just enforce members to always deal on site. I know I have a few clients that I message off site but I guess that'll have to change don't want to risk my account for a false accusations and it's better to have a paper trail through Convo/PMs. I'm not against this at all but it will change my way of doing deals to cover my ass.
That's an automatic closed account for dealing without HF Contracts. So yes, members will want to cover their asses even harder with on-site evidence.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - mickeh - Oct 13, 2022
i bet theres loads of disputes to go through too
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Skorp - Oct 13, 2022
Just got off work to this! Never thought this would be something I would read honestly after all the years of the famous canned message about Staff doesn't get involved in Deal Disputes, but
' Wrote:It's something that people have always wanted.
This.
Hopefully scammers will think twice on scamming members, now they will be risking their account (which takes time to build up) after your investigation. Hope this works out (which I do believe it will). Now all those people saying you don't get involved in DD can f#%* off haha! :D
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Smexy - Oct 13, 2022
I feel sorry for the amount of disputes you are gonna have to review :(
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Sys-3200 - Oct 13, 2022
Good to hear, I spend much time lurking on Deal Disputes and I've happened to read stuff like "he won't get banned, staff doesn't get involved in disputes" and so on... (even though major/recidive scammers get closed and that's already a big point). And also many disputes stay stalled and left for days, weeks, months without a proper solution (while the alleged scammer keeps doing their shady stuff)
Your direct action and presence in DDs will surely give a proper "justice" feeling to both the parts involved according to their position and to the whole community.
Needless to say, good luck!
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Edge - Oct 13, 2022
Maybe you could add an option after you submit a deal dispute to escalate. For example if the accused doesn't respond within 24 hours, the accuser has the option escalate and you can look into it at that point. This would avoid having to view EVERY dispute that could be resolved between both parties on their own anyway.
I'm glad you're stepping in to oversee this. Should get rid of a lot of blatant scammers. This is great news.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Bullup - Oct 13, 2022
(Oct 13, 2022 02:34 PM)Omniscient Wrote: Technically I don't think this will take up a great deal of time. It's literally one open dispute per day on average. Which is very good. A lot of disputes do get resolved by members. The system works as-is but I'm tired of the appearance I'm not doing enough. Perception does matter. If this action makes people feel better, I suppose why not. I'm actually okay with being an asshole and closing a load of accounts. I already do that anyways. I just closed 10 upgraded accounts for example. No fucks given.
Time will tell if this has any real impact on making HF "safer" or more accessible to people. Noobs are still going to get scammed off-site. Veteran members wishing to do an exit-scam are still going to do those too. But I suppose quicker action means less people get scammed, that's the hope.
The system does work as is because as you say, majority of the disputes get resolved between users luckily, especially comparing to other forums where it's just drama until someone gets banned or the thread dies out.
1 dispute a day won't be that time consuming indeed, i thought it was more, which is indeed very good, and you being part of all of this now is also quiet good in terms of locating exit scammers, where you being part of the contract system will shine the most i think, as you'll be able to catch them much sooner, most likely before they actually can perform their exit scam properly.
In terms of noobs being scammed off-site, well yeah, not much more can be done about that i suppose and that won't ever change either most likely.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Omniscient - Oct 13, 2022
Quote:Hopefully scammers will think twice on scamming members
I laughed out loud at this. You been here long enough. You know their persistence. You also know they open more accounts. This might help some but, and probably push good sellers up, but scammers don't think twice about scamming. A closed account to them means nothing. If anything, they'll do more to build up an account to get a larger scam if they only get one shot before the account is burned. Yes, I'm a skeptic. But we'll see in the next few months how this goes. My very serious guess is that it's just perception that changes and not the amount of actual scams which in past 60 days has been 54 open Disputes out of 1833 Completed Contracts. That's about 3% which is where HF Contracts have always been at for Dispute numbers.
RE: Deal Dispute Policy - Zeus - Oct 13, 2022
This is a great idea to try and get some resolved hopefully i can get the one with proxies.tv resolved if that's possible.