[semendaemon]

[post]

It was 5AM and booze was involved so the underhanded insults aren't meant to be taken seriously. I don't want to add productive feedback because I don't see you becoming productive in the first place, I enjoy ranting and frustrating out. I can't actually get myself to write another lengthy comment, I'll just recommend you re-read my comment and see just how far away you are from my point, really. And, like, this is the whole issue: You're so clueless about what you're not knowing hence I can't even explain it, because you're in your mind have already fixated towards what you already know. The tool complaint wasn't my main point, my main point was that you're talking to hacking and pentesting as synonyms. In the post of "Downloading linux", this is what I'm talking about - You didn't bother to talk about all the other types of hacking. Not a single mention. Everything you've listed in this thread in regards to beginners is pre-assume they want to know about pentesting, while that's not true. They want to know what's more out there and then decide for themselves, and you've failed in supplying the real demand.

>all i ask though is just don't try and learn EVERYTHING
No, that's exactly what you should be doing. Every single decent hacker I've met started by literally learning everything, then settling down for the things he liked the most. Yet again you show your incompetency, and for the first time I'll say sorry because here I'm not offending and I actually mean it.

Hacking is about curiousity and creativity. Yes, you fail this. You're failing to discuss the passion, the fun, the process of finding out and figuring out, you're missing all of that. You give them a list, tell them to download linux, tell them to read vulnerabilities, and off they go. This disgusts me honestly.

And I got more of these examples. Practically your entire post, but we can continue. You don't have passion, do you? When I started out, I learned everything. 7 years later, I still do. I want to keep learning 30 years from now.

It's tempting to say learn assembly language, learn programing language (c#, c , c++, java, python); then learn networking protocol (TCP, IP, UDP, TELNET, SMTP, ARP etc etc). But when will you stop. There are so many programming languages out there, and many many more protocols.

If you're any good, you will never stop. Learners never stop learning. This is what's cool about hacking, you never actually know anything.
Why does this scare you? What's the issue of never stopping learning? Is it something bad?
From what I see, you see hacking as a learning curve that ends. You learn XYZ then you can start hacking. But your hacking isn't my hacking. Your hacking is breaking into things illegaly, my hacking is creating beauty with computers. Could very well be that I'm wrong and forever will be, but I'll still make sure the other side of the coin will be heard and those that seek for more might just get to read this.

you see them as mere sheeps who would follow anyone blindly. Sure if you can suggest them a method that works better than someone else; I see no reason why everyone would not simply follow you.

To anyone starting out, I've always had one mission to give. Close this forum, google what interests you and go from there. Don't listen to me or any other idiot about how to start, just start. You'll figure out the "how" in your process, just keep going and research absolutely everything you come across. That's my way - They learn by having absolutely nothing and getting themselves to know everything.They will figure out for themselves what distrobution, what tools, what programming languages, what everything. They're not idiots, they're people aspiring to learn hacking. If they fail to get where they want - They weren't meant to learn this. Ezpz.

so yes, TL;DR
1. stop thinking that hacking means the same word as pentesting, you're misleading people. hacking has at least 10 more fields, not just that one

2. stop thinking these people need a structured way to learn, beacuse you have no idea what they actually want to learn and any structure you will come up is going to be as awful as the one you've already written. going back to point number 1, you can't account for all interests, but you failed at least mentioning there are more.

3. stop assuming I'm here for the good of all, that I'm soon going to be helping around. My approach is very different to people seeking help: I don't believe 95% of them deserve it. I'd rather throw them all in a pile and help the 3 guys that manage to come out. The self discipline and motivation required to actually get good is something that the overwhelming majority lacks thus I refuse to waste my time.

Oh, and I prefer tearing down those that do have an interest in helping. Do you know about Big-Oh-Notation? it's a way of explaining optimization within given tasks. If I give my help to members of the forum, I'll work O(n). If I'll fix whatever tinsy little hope I got in having you post quality advice, I'll work O(1) and have the same result. It's more efficient and my time's little.

[Faith Connors]

Snip

I'm just gonna say, don't try to pick a fight with him. You won't win. Trust me.
Don't worry, I'm not exempt from him either, he won't hesitate to rip me apart if I'm wrong or he disagrees with me or whatever

[Asdethprime]

Hi semendaemon,

It being 5am in the morning or booze isn't really a reasonable excuse for insulting someone but hey I am pretty thick skinned and it doesn't really bother me.

What I am however a bit surprised is how presumptuous you are. You concluded that I am clueless, don't have drive to learn, and a lot of rant in the same manner as the last post without actually giving a viable suggestion.

You see this is exactly what is referred to as "ad hominem".

I never said there is anything wrong with continuing to learn, I have never advised anyone to stop learning. However, what I have been arguing and will continue argue is that merely learning vs actually see some concrete output help to learn.

You are my view differs in the rational of things. You see hacking as an art, I see it as something different, a science. A science of figuring out what will happen if you ask a machine to do something that it is not designed to do. Will it crash, give a standard output as it should or will it give you a non-standard output , i.e. something other that what it was designed to do.

I am also rather baffled by your complain that I tell people to do certain things and leave. For that to be considered a complain I am rather bemused to how you see normal users of hack forum as. Do you see them as sheep that will only do what they are asked to do?

As you mentioned hacking is about curiosity, which includes being curious about why a certain command was recommended, why a certain tool was used, how the tool worked, how did the tool give the output it gave, if the tool did not work why it did not work. You see if you take the tools, then ask yourself things question that opens a lot of path to learn.

Also don't get me wrong, I never said you should not learn but learn things as a need to know basis.

Here let me try and explain myself, if you are trying to say perform a ARP poisoning, then yes learn how ARP works, learn what vulnerability it has, why does it have those vulnerability, maybe it has some other vulnerability other than what has been known. That curiosity should come naturally.

You see I am neither feeding them what to do, nor confining them to what and how they should go about doing anything. All I am doing is giving my OPINION and my suggestion on how the said problem could be tackled. I have never presumed my way was the only one out there.

Now in regards to the things you said like: stop thinking what hacking is and isnt; what people want and don't want; my answer is rather simple. I am bound by your rule. I shall keep doing what I am doing.

If that bothers you, well you have 3 options:
1) Continue to rant like a cry baby as you have been doing
2) Go cry to your mommy
3) Maybe step up and teach people better ways.

Lastly your presumption is 95% of people here don't deserve help. Good for you, I don't believe that. If anyone asks a question and it is within my power to answer I will. Whether they confine themselves to what i say, whether they do further research, whether they whine and cry like a cry baby or whether they ignore it is entirely upto them.

If anything I have said is incorrect, you or anyone else is welcome to correct me; those valid correct I will assure you I shall take in, thank you and next time the same topic comes up I will suggest them ideas with the said correction.

Else if you keep rating, all I am going to is keep replying till i get bored and stop replying. You can't tell me what to do and what not to do; nor can i tell you want to do and what not to do.

What I can however do is giggle at your ranting and reply if I have time and ignore it if i don't have time.

So yeah, if my action bothers you so much well you can cry me a river.. or you know do whatever it is you do, rant, pull your hairs the options are plenty.

Have fun, I would love to check it out to see if you have a valid suggestion, if you do I shall accept it; but if it comes out as a complete rant I shall ignore it.

And just for the record, this is how I see things:
1) Learning how to use tools makes you a script kiddie, nothing wrong with that other than NOT TO STOP HERE
2) Mastering the tools you use makes you a PENTESTER, natural progression of event.
3) Going beyond what mere tools can do, making your own tools and exploits makes you a HACKER.

But i see it as a systematic progression and would advise people accordingly.

I do not know where you are from, nor am I really interested, but I am going to guess people in class 1 and 2 are simple books with ABCD to learn rather than actual journals so they can understanding everything and create their own language for communication.

I see hacking as the same thing.. too bad you don't like it.. because you see the person who does not like it is YOU.. so whose problem do you think it is? And who do you think should do something about it?

Because if your version of doing something about it is just ranting and complaining then well good for you... not very effective... but well if that lets you sleep peacefully at night so be it =)

---

I'm just gonna say, don't try to pick a fight with him. You won't win. Trust me.
Don't worry, I'm not exempt from him either, he won't hesitate to rip me apart if I'm wrong or he disagrees with me or whatever

Hi Conners,

Not sure where a win or lose idea is coming from or the idea of him ripping anything. All he/she has done is complain and nothing else.

There is no argument that either the command specified, the tool specified, or the documents listed were incorrect. I mean read the reply again, all he's said is my method of teaching people is INCORRECT. How is that akin to an argument or winning escapes me for the moment.

You are merely presuming he is ripping anyone's argument, because it's not an argument, it just a one sided complain. Honestly, I am enjoying myself here.

And please don't be offended but what you think I should and should not do is not going to dictate what I end up doing. In regards to being scared of someone, here's a cool fact, unless the person is capable of hacking into the very server of hack-forum he won't even be able to figure out my IP. Not to mention I could freely give him out I am IP and throw a open challange for him to hack me.

You see hacking does not work the way you think; nor is there a reason for me to be scared. I don't brag but I am not someone who has to be scared of anyone hacking skills on hackforum.

But hey thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it =)

[semendaemon]

[post]

It being 5am in the morning or booze isn't really a reasonable excuse for insulting someone but hey I am pretty thick skinned and it doesn't really bother me.

Oh don't worry, I don't actually give a shit about your feelings. I like to give background to why I could sound so whiny.

What I am however a bit surprised is how presumptuous you are. [...] actually giving a viable suggestion.

Giving a viable suggestion? My two posts are one giant viable suggestion: Focus more about the philosophy, the other aspects of hacking, and don't be so fixated.

You see this is exactly what is referred to as "ad hominem".

Ignoring the fact that pointing a fallacy in an argument is actually the fallacy-fallacy. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy) I know my rhetorics too, I just don't bother to make a sensible argument when I'd rather have fun instead.

I never said there is anything wrong with continuing to learn, I have never advised anyone to stop learning. However, what I have been arguing and will continue argue is that merely learning vs actually see some concrete output help to learn.

Concrete output isn't entitled to come out in one form. Besides, patience is as important of a virtue as any other trait. Why are we going back to the this point? I've already said that I have less issues with your presentation of pentesting, it's FINE, I have more issues with you presenting pentesting as hacking while leaving nothing more.

You are my view differs in the rational of things. You see hacking as an art, I see it as something different, a science. A science of figuring out what will happen if you ask a machine to do something that it is not designed to do. Will it crash, give a standard output as it should or will it give you a non-standard output , i.e. something other that what it was designed to do.

Yeah, but you still do a very poor job of displaying that science, because that science has many more routes and fields and you've only painted one as the whole package. Which is, like, the whole essence of my whinings.

I am also rather baffled by your complain that I tell people to do certain things and leave. For that to be considered a complain I am rather bemused to how you see normal users of hack forum as. Do you see them as sheep that will only do what they are asked to do?

Yes. Which is a product of their surroundings. Some of which, is you.

As you mentioned hacking is about curiosity, which includes being curious about why a certain command was recommended, why a certain tool was used, how the tool worked, how did the tool give the output it gave, if the tool did not work why it did not work. You see if you take the tools, then ask yourself things question that opens a lot of path to learn.

You're not doing a very good job of conveying that. If you were, I'd bitch less. You're telling things as they are, you're not leaving options or question marks or any bullet points that would be thought provoking.

Also don't get me wrong, I never said you should not learn but learn things as a need to know basis.

The basis will never be the tools. They can be integrated to get the "Wow" affect, but feeding them at the start is awful. Learning by doing is one way, but make sure to actually paint the limitations of which doing without exploring will get you. Add more depth to why people should actually go beyond the call of duty, because your posts here while not discoureging further learning, are not encoureging it either. No, reading packetstorm isn't further learning, that's where they literally get their attacks from.

Here let me try and explain myself, if you are trying to say perform a ARP poisoning, then yes learn how ARP works, learn what vulnerability it has, why does it have those vulnerability, maybe it has some other vulnerability other than what has been known. That curiosity should come naturally.

If the curiousity would come naturally, this section wouldn't have looked like this. Curiousity does not come naturally. It could be an aspiration or a by product though.

You see I am neither feeding them what to do, nor confining them to what and how they should go about doing anything. All I am doing is giving my OPINION and my suggestion on how the said problem could be tackled. I have never presumed my way was the only one out there.

Yeah and my opinion is that yours is bad, which is why I reply. I wouldn't have bothered if I saw people aren't taking you seriously, but they are - so I do. They shouldn't.

1) Continue to rant like a cry baby as you have been doing
2) Go cry to your mommy
3) Maybe step up and teach people better ways.

I'd rather continue ranting on your posts, it's fun. You're breeding advanced skids. You're failing at conveying the spectrum of hacking while only being able to explain the (very) little you know, and it shows. And it offends me, because while they're sheep these users can actually grow out of their mentality and become smarter if you'll make better content that actually encapsulates well what hacking is and what it has more to offer.

Lastly your presumption is 95% of people here don't deserve help. Good for you, I don't believe that. If anyone asks a question and it is within my power to answer I will. Whether they confine themselves to what i say, whether they do further research, whether they whine and cry like a cry baby or whether they ignore it is entirely upto them.

You can continue creating skids, I'll be on my own thing and attempt to claw my way and pull one or two out of it. :)

If anything I have said is incorrect, you or anyone else is welcome to correct me; those valid correct I will assure you I shall take in, thank you and next time the same topic comes up I will suggest them ideas with the said correction.

While a lot of my writings are just basically insults, I've made objective points and pls do take them seriously. It's not the first time you're writing stupid things, not the tenth time.

1) Learning how to use tools makes you a script kiddie, nothing wrong with that other than NOT TO STOP HERE
2) Mastering the tools you use makes you a PENTESTER, natural progression of event.
3) Going beyond what mere tools can do, making your own tools and exploits makes you a HACKER.

Wrong. Pentesting is just a field, stop thinking pls you're bad at this oh my lord save me pls. This is what I've been trying to say this whole thread page.
Pentesting is offensive networking security. THIS IS IT. That's it! How many times do I fucking have to tell you before you'll get it through your skull? Pentesting is literally just a field within a list of fields all going under the umbrella term of Computer Security. You're not a pentester if you're writing malware. You're not a pentester if you're hacking website applications (Though this one is debateable, if you're only staying on HTTP You're an AppSec guy not a pentester)
My issue, is that you're giving somewhat-ok advice at becoming a somewhat-ok pentester AND YOURE CALLING THAT HACKING. No, that's pentesting. It could be hacking in computer security notation of that word ("Hack somebody, get hacked") but hacking as the same umbrella term, has pentesting under it = not equal to it.

Because if your version of doing something about it is just ranting and complaining then well good for you... not very effective... but well if that lets you sleep peacefully at night so be it =)

It's more about me having fun while being somewhat educational. You're deluding others, I'm pointing your BS, and so it continues.

---

Hi Conners,

Not sure where a win or lose idea is coming from or the idea of him ripping anything. All he/she has done is complain and nothing else.

There is no argument that either the command specified, the tool specified, or the documents listed were incorrect. I mean read the reply again, all he's said is my method of teaching people is INCORRECT. How is that akin to an argument or winning escapes me for the moment.

You are merely presuming he is ripping anyone's argument, because it's not an argument, it just a one sided complain. Honestly, I am enjoying myself here.

And please don't be offended but what you think I should and should not do is not going to dictate what I end up doing. In regards to being scared of someone, here's a cool fact, unless the person is capable of hacking into the very server of hack-forum he won't even be able to figure out my IP. Not to mention I could freely give him out I am IP and throw a open challange for him to hack me.

You see hacking does not work the way you think; nor is there a reason for me to be scared. I don't brag but I am not someone who has to be scared of anyone hacking skills on hackforum.

But hey thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it =)

Not sure where a win or lose idea is coming from or the idea of him ripping anything. All he/she has done is complain and nothing else.

Users with a brain read arguments and gain knowledge. Even if I didn't know I was right I'd still question your guidelines and have you justify them to me so first I'd know second the rest would know. Question everything.

There is no argument that either the command specified, the tool specified, or the documents listed were incorrect. I mean read the reply again, all he's said is my method of teaching people is INCORRECT. How is that akin to an argument or winning escapes me for the moment.

You were assuming pentesting was discussed or asked, while the thread discussed hacking. Hacking encapsulates pentesting, it's only a single field. You can't do that, you basically imply all the other fields don't exist.

You are merely presuming he is ripping anyone's argument, because it's not an argument, it just a one sided complain. Honestly, I am enjoying myself here.

Arguing about opinions is still arguing. Yours is shit, here's why.

And please don't be offended but what you think I should and should not do is not going to dictate what I end up doing. In regards to being scared of someone, here's a cool fact, unless the person is capable of hacking into the very server of hack-forum he won't even be able to figure out my IP. Not to mention I could freely give him out I am IP and throw a open challange for him to hack me.

What does that have to do with anything? You're awkward, stop it. Plus, I'm not allowed to do anything under NDA regulations nor I actually intend to do something. I'm simply here to call out idiots, it's fun.

[Asdethprime]

LOL

so now the complain is my teaching method is bad because I don't explicity tell people to RESEARCH MORE and you don't like it and your resort to that is what crying your lungs out as a cry baby.

So i am an idiot for trying to help people out; and you are a super genuis for complaining loads and refusing to help.

Yep sounds fantastic.

You know what, here have a cookie.

Hehe

---

Oh and taking your advice what I plan to do is eventually get a signature that says " PLEASE DO FURTHER RESEARCH.... PEOPLE ARE CRYING THAT I AM EVIDENTLY BREEDING ADVANCE SCRIPT KIDDIES --- I am a motherly figure on hackforum"

With all that's said and done I am still having trouble figuring out why being a motherly figure on hackforum is a bad things.. that one I am gonna take as the biggest compliment anyone has given me here.

HEHE thank you.. and here have one more cookie.. hope you die of diabetes from fictional cookies.... HEHEHEHEH

[Faith Connors]

Guys, don't make a scene. This thread isn't your personal boxing ring. Yall wanna duke it out? Take it to the PMs or somewhere off-site.

---

I have a question

Which is best to choose among these :->
1. fuzzdb -> https://github.com/fuzzdb-project/fuzzdb
2. seclists -> https://github.com/danielmiessler/SecLists
3. intruderPayloads -> https://github.com/1N3/IntruderPayloads

IntruderPayloads hasn't been updated for about 5 months now. It could potentially be outdated, but it still has some good content there.
FuzzDB has much more and is just a lot better in general.
SecLists is maintained by members of OWASP so I would trust them the most.

To be honest they do have a lot of similar stuff in them, but SecLists is what I would go for.

---

what program would you say is easiest to learn off?

Uhh, what exactly are you asking?
Like what what program as in course to take to learn more about this stuff? Start with the CompTIA ones to get a better understanding of computers in general and how stuff works. So A+, Networks+ then Security+. You can find video lectures online at cybrary.it for free, but the books are exponentially better IMO. Really detailed and they even tell you certain things that will be on the exam to help you out.
Once you get through CompTIA, I'd go for CEH just because it's really easy and you might pick up on a few things that you didn't know. It is, however very conceptual. Don't think you're gonna be a l33t h4ck3r just because you completed it. You won't be, and likely you won't know where to start. So just keep learning. Pick a field in hacking, learn more about it. Learn everything you can. If you have more free time or some infosec experience as a job, then maybe you'd want to go for CISSP. If you have money, go for OSCP.

If you meant what program to "learn hacking" as an application that will hack everything for you,
1. You have to be specific what you want to do. There isn't a Watch_Dogs phone app that will hack streetlights for you or break into your ex's facebook account.
2. You're a major skid as you still likely won't learn anything.

[Asdethprime]

Oops sorry about that Connors, won't comment further.

Apologies for the inconvenience =)

[Faith Connors]

Bumping back up as its about to hit page 2

[SilentkillarHF]

Would someone be able to help me privately? I have a few questions about vulnerabilities. Also I scanned a website and found a shitton of vulnerabilities, where I looked on exploit-db afterwards. I found exploits for the vulnerabilities, but I'm not sure how to use the exploit :S. Help is appreciated! :)

- SilentkillarHF

[Faith Connors]

Would someone be able to help me privately? I have a few questions about vulnerabilities. Also I scanned a website and found a shitton of vulnerabilities, where I looked on exploit-db afterwards. I found exploits for the vulnerabilities, but I'm not sure how to use the exploit :S. Help is appreciated! :)

- SilentkillarHF

If it's not listed in the disallowed blackhat stuff then you can post it here.

But if you really wanna talk privately my XMPP is in the OP.

[♦ [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1000)̲̅$̲̅] ♦]

I am online and able to assist anyone.

[SilentkillarHF]

If it's not listed in the disallowed blackhat stuff then you can post it here.

But if you really wanna talk privately my XMPP is in the OP.

I'm not sure what XMPP is, and on your profile I need my account upgraded to access it.

---

I am online and able to assist anyone.

I would love some help from you, how can I contact you privately?

---

Also, I'm not liking blackhat hacking, I'm more like a greyhat. I wanna learn about this mostly for educational use ;)

[Faith Connors]

Well if you want to, you can PM either of us. And you don't need to be upgraded to use XMPP, only to sign up for the sites Xmpp. I use XMPP.jp but others use other providers like crimin.al or blah.im. It's definitely safer than most email providers and skype.

But of course you can always PM us if it's not disallowed.

[SilentkillarHF]

Well if you want to, you can PM either of us. And you don't need to be upgraded to use XMPP, only to sign up for the sites Xmpp. I use XMPP.jp but others use other providers like crimin.al or blah.im. It's definitely safer than most email providers and skype.

But of course you can always PM us if it's not disallowed.

I contacted you on PM, sir :)

- Silent

[TALDRAKS]

Oh boy, those beef post sure took a while to read.
My newbie question, that I wanted to ask is, do people use any kind of proxy or anything to browse safely (especially when saying, google how to create malware and scanning sites).
Also, your computer can't really be fully hack-proof since there are so many factors, but does anyone recommend any particularilly effective anti virus programs and such?
Finally, I only just heard of xmpp and am just using Gmail cause it's apparently the most safe (popular) mailing service but I'm pretty sure that's only cause of some old hackathon that it won in.