[ITZRat]

If I want to become a web-developer, or perhaps an app developer, do I need to go to College? I'm currently in College and will be getting my associates. However, after College I was thinking of majoring in Computer Science, just not sure I want to take on another 4 years of school. I'll be taking programming in College now, but what if I want to be a programmer for video games, or perhaps just a web-developer, or programmer. Would I need to go to a university after my associates for that?

Update: Also, would it be wise to do both, web-development and app-development?

[6577657534735]

Web and app development are easier software sub-fields to get into without a computer science degree than other fields. As far as I'm aware they can go more towards the side of "my portfolio is my resume" than traditional software engineering roles

That being said, there are many important things you need to learn to become a successful and high paid software developer. And these are often skimmed over by people who self study rather than getting a degree in Computer Science

I'll redirect you to my extensive thread on the topic here though it is not specific to web/app development:

How to land top developer jobs as a new grad
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5087829

[N1nT3n_Dud3_1121]

Well. I'm currently in 9th grade and I've already started learning how to code. I'd just say that in order to become a web developer, well, first off you need to take classes in coding that help you build skills (the more you do it, the more you'll remember). Also when you want to learn how to code there are many many things you have to learn, functions, variables, how applications are created, how to create webpages, how to publish websites/applications. There's also many things in JS that you must learn before you start actually creating. You see, you need to memorize the language to get applied for a job specializing in it like HTML development, application development. Programming is one of those hard subjects to master, also math which some algebra elements are in programming.
Second off... well, if you are looking for a job focusing in coding/computer science, you would need to of course get a degree in that field, to have a chance of being hired for that job. Well I don't know much how applying for jobs work but I know that for a lot of jobs you have to have a bachelor's degree in that field, you'd have to have graduated from college. Hope I helped.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

<snip>

No offense, but anyone who is still in high school doesn't exactly have enough information to be a credible source for this topic.

I've found that the opposite of what you said is true. The truth is, you don't need a tech-related degree to get a job as a web developer. I have a few coworkers that have degrees that have nothing to do with technology at all, and yet they're excellent developers.

Many companies nowadays are realizing that a lot of colleges simply don't teach you anything that is actually used in the industry. Technology evolves fast, and professors at universities who have been teaching the same material for a decade do not. I mean, just two years ago jQuery was the defacto JavaScript library for building user interfaces and client side functionality. Now, people are moving away from jQuery (and quickly) and moving towards more scalable libraries like Angular or React.

OP - the answer is no, you don't need a tech-related degree from a four-year college to get a job as a web developer. My advice is to get a two-year degree at a community college so you aren't drowning in debt, and spend that time focusing on the material you learn in school while simultaneously keeping up with some of the newer libraries that school inevitably won't cover. That kind of experience will land you a job, not a degree from a four-year college.

[6577657534735]

No offense, but anyone who is still in high school doesn't exactly have enough information to be a credible source for this topic.

I've found that the opposite of what you said is true. The truth is, you don't need a tech-related degree to get a job as a web developer. I have a few coworkers that have degrees that have nothing to do with technology at all, and yet they're excellent developers.

Many companies nowadays are realizing that a lot of colleges simply don't teach you anything that is actually used in the industry. Technology evolves fast, and professors at universities who have been teaching the same material for a decade do not. I mean, just two years ago jQuery was the defacto JavaScript library for building user interfaces and client side functionality. Now, people are moving away from jQuery (and quickly) and moving towards more scalable libraries like Angular or React.

OP - the answer is no, you don't need a tech-related degree from a four-year college to get a job as a web developer. My advice is to get a two-year degree at a community college so you aren't drowning in debt, and spend that time focusing on the material you learn in school while simultaneously keeping up with some of the newer libraries that school inevitably won't cover. That kind of experience will land you a job, not a degree from a four-year college.

Thing is though you're boxing yourself in by not getting a degree and focusing on these web based technologies

There's a reason the highest paying employers don't give a shit about:
-Which languages you know
-Which frameworks you know
-Which technologies you know

And instead only care about your knowledge of Computer Science fundamentals, because languages, frameworks, and technologies are trivial to learn for any decently competent person.

Don't limit your potential, get a CS degree and earn hundreds of thousands more, even millions more, over the course of your entire career.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Thing is though you're boxing yourself in by not getting a degree and focusing on these web based technologies

There's a reason the highest paying employers don't give a shit about:
-Which languages you know
-Which frameworks you know
-Which technologies you know

And instead only care about your knowledge of Computer Science fundamentals, because languages, frameworks, and technologies are trivial to learn for any decently competent person.

Don't limit your potential, get a CS degree and earn hundreds of thousands more, even millions more, over the course of your entire career.

I'm not sure I understand your point. If your resume includes knowledge of widely used web frameworks and libraries, and you can demonstrate this knowledge, then it should be implied that you already know the fundamentals of computer science.

You can learn these fundamentals without having to spend four years or more at a public college. Community college can cover that just fine.

[6577657534735]

I'm not sure I understand your point. If your resume includes knowledge of widely used web frameworks and libraries, and you can demonstrate this knowledge, then it should be implied that you already know the fundamentals of computer science.

You can learn these fundamentals without having to spend four years or more at a public college. Community college can cover that just fine.

No, web frameworks and libraries literally have nothing to do with computer science fundamentals. In fact the more libraries and frameworks you use the more actual computer science stuff is literally abstracted away and hidden from you.

Computer Science isn't programming, it's a branch of math where the relevant sub-topics are largely: data structures and algorithms, discrete math and algorithmic complexity analysis, then things like finite state machines, turing machines, and other computational machines, then computability theory. NP completeness and proofs regarding that. Then more practical things like programming language design, database design, OS internals, networking concepts, then even basic digital logic design from flip flops up to simple ALUs and memory banks, etc.

Like I said earlier in this thread, see this thread here for a more detailed overview of actual CS topics you need to become a successful entry level developer at any high paying company:
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5087829

[neiqhtworks]

College wont make you an expert, but it will 100% help.

Also most jobs require at least bachelors degrees.

An Associates is better than nothing though.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

No, web frameworks and libraries literally have nothing to do with computer science fundamentals. In fact the more libraries and frameworks you use the more actual computer science stuff is literally abstracted away and hidden from you.

Computer Science isn't programming, it's a branch of math where the relevant sub-topics are largely: data structures and algorithms, discrete math and algorithmic complexity analysis, then things like finite state machines, turing machines, and other computational machines, then computability theory. NP completeness and proofs regarding that. Then more practical things like programming language design, database design, OS internals, networking concepts, etc.

Like I said earlier in this thread, see this thread here for a more detailed overview of actual CS topics you need to become a successful entry level developer at any high paying company:
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5087829

My bad, I misunderstood what you were saying.

After taking a look at your post, I would say I agree to a point. Yes, many technical interviews cover data structures and basic algorithms, but from my experience, these topics are usually not required knowledge for the actual work that you would be doing past the interview stage. Obviously, it depends on what you do with your CS degree, but as far as web development or app development goes (and keep in mind, this is what the OP is asking about), stuff like NP-Hard and NP-Complete problems are literally never touched, and data structures or sorting algorithms are rarely used, if at all.

I know that you said that these kinds of things are typically used for software development, which seems to imply that web development is not software development, but honestly a lot of top paying companies which primarily use the web to operate most of their business aren't going to care about these kinds of things. Major software companies like Amazon, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft invest a lot into web technologies, and they're happy to hire people who have experience with the kinds of technologies that they use on a daily basis, even if they can't write up a proof for an NP-Complete problem. Not only that, but there are tons of large companies who you wouldn't normally associate with web development that are actually quite active in the web scene (such as the company that I work for), and they don't really care all that much about these "important" topics either.

[6577657534735]

My bad, I misunderstood what you were saying.

After taking a look at your post, I would say I agree to a point. Yes, many technical interviews cover data structures and basic algorithms, but from my experience, these topics are usually not required knowledge for the actual work that you would be doing past the interview stage. Obviously, it depends on what you do with your CS degree, but as far as web development or app development goes (and keep in mind, this is what the OP is asking about), stuff like NP-Hard and NP-Complete problems are literally never touched, and data structures or sorting algorithms are rarely used, if at all.

I know that you said that these kinds of things are typically used for software development, which seems to imply that web development is not software development, but honestly a lot of top paying companies which primarily use the web to operate most of their business aren't going to care about these kinds of things. Major software companies like Amazon, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft invest a lot into web technologies, and they're happy to hire people who have experience with the kinds of technologies that they use on a daily basis, even if they can't write up a proof for an NP-Complete problem. Not only that, but there are tons of large companies who you wouldn't normally associate with web development that are actually quite active in the web scene (such as the company that I work for), and they don't really care all that much about these "important" topics either.

No. Amazon, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft (the "Big 4") are the exact types of companies I'm talking about that literally don't really care much at all about specific languages or technologies you know, and instead ONLY drill you on pure CS fundamentals: data structures and algorithms as well as OS concepts. I know this first hand from my interviews with them. Some care more than others but it's really all about pure CS knowledge.

And yeah NP complete proofs are never relevant but I'm just saying, that is what CS is. I have heard of people being asked to write proofs in interviews though lol but luckily that's not common.

[ITZRat]

No, web frameworks and libraries literally have nothing to do with computer science fundamentals. In fact the more libraries and frameworks you use the more actual computer science stuff is literally abstracted away and hidden from you.

Computer Science isn't programming, it's a branch of math where the relevant sub-topics are largely: data structures and algorithms, discrete math and algorithmic complexity analysis, then things like finite state machines, turing machines, and other computational machines, then computability theory. NP completeness and proofs regarding that. Then more practical things like programming language design, database design, OS internals, networking concepts, then even basic digital logic design from flip flops up to simple ALUs and memory banks, etc.

Like I said earlier in this thread, see this thread here for a more detailed overview of actual CS topics you need to become a successful entry level developer at any high paying company:
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5087829

So, if I wanted to be program apps and video games, I shouldn't go with CS; Computer Programming would probably be my choice.

[6577657534735]

So, if I wanted to be program apps and video games, I shouldn't go with CS; Computer Programming would probably be my choice.

I don't know what "Computer Programming" is, lots of countries and schools have different names. But yeah you can probably get by without a full on CS degree if you want to program apps or be a video game designer

For any hardcore development position though, like working on very "elite" apps at top companies, or being a video game engine designer, then you WILL need to have a CS degree or study all the CS stuff on your own time anyway (which is way harder to get your foot into the door then)

[g4143]

I don't know what "Computer Programming" is, lots of countries and schools have different names. But yeah you can probably get by without a full on CS degree if you want to program apps or be a video game designer

For any hardcore development position though, like working on very "elite" apps at top companies, or being a video game engine designer, then you WILL need to have a CS degree or study all the CS stuff on your own time anyway (which is way harder to get your foot into the door then)

Most elite programming fields have a graduate/doctorate degree attached to it or 10 - 20 years experience plus a undergraduate degree.

The truth is most undergraduate software engineers/CS holders work for small start-ups making apps with PHP/SQL/Apache/Ruby/Rails.

[Stl Missouri]

I got a web development job less than a week out of high school. I also had offers from a few other companies. I live in St. Louis which is supposedly an up-and-coming technology city, so perhaps there are more companies looking for work here.

[6577657534735]

Most elite programming fields have a graduate/doctorate degree attached to it or 10 - 20 years experience plus a undergraduate degree.

The truth is most undergraduate software engineers/CS holders work for small start-ups making apps with PHP/SQL/Apache/Ruby/Rails.

Not really true, most developers with 10-20 years experience and PhDs will not touch code anymore, they will be software architects or product managers or similar

And a very small percentage of undergrad software engineers/CS holders work for small startups with PHP/SQL/Apache/Ruby/Rails. Like a very small percentage

The vast majority of all programming jobs are at either large software companies, or large non-software companies. startups are a thing but you either get huge pay from successful ones or you become a slave working for shitty stocks at shitty ones.