[Sunquyman]

Not at all. I know some people who skipped college and went straight into freelancing and self-learning. One of them works in a high position at Kickstarter for web development.

[g4143]

Not at all. I know some people who skipped college and went straight into freelancing and self-learning. One of them works in a high position at Kickstarter for web development.

How can you freelance when you know nothing?

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

No. Amazon, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft (the "Big 4") are the exact types of companies I'm talking about that literally don't really care much at all about specific languages or technologies you know, and instead ONLY drill you on pure CS fundamentals: data structures and algorithms as well as OS concepts. I know this first hand from my interviews with them. Some care more than others but it's really all about pure CS knowledge.

I disagree. In fact, I personally know people who have used React in public Github repositories and have received a call from Facebook with a job offer.

Like I said earlier, these companies might care about these concepts during interviews, but rarely do you actually need to know that material after the interview stage.

[Sunquyman]

How can you freelance when you know nothing?

Attending a university != knowing nothing. Given the rapid development of various technologies, it is possible to work and learn your way up. Of course, networking for opportunities is key.

[6577657534735]

I disagree. In fact, I personally know people who have used React in public Github repositories and have received a call from Facebook with a job offer.

Like I said earlier, these companies might care about these concepts during interviews, but rarely do you actually need to know that material after the interview stage.

Nobody at Facebook gets hired without a basic level of competency in data structures and algorithms. I guarantee you his usage of "React" is not the only reason he got hired and there's more to the story

There's another story of the guy who created Homebrew being rejected by Google based on poor performance on an algorithm interview, followed by him crying about it on social media. So anecdotes don't mean much.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9695102

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Nobody at Facebook gets hired without a basic level of competency in data structures and algorithms. I guarantee you his usage of "React" is not the only reason he got hired and there's more to the story

There's another story of the guy who created Homebrew being rejected by Google based on poor performance on an algorithm interview, followed by him crying about it on social media. So anecdotes don't mean much.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9695102

I've heard about that too. I can't tell you much more about the whole Facebook/React thing without revealing where I am employed, so you will just have to take it at face value and interpret it how you want. But I am telling the truth. Usually it's easy to tell when people have been in the industry for a long time, and stuff like algorithms and data structures aren't used as frequently in interviews.

This is just my experience, and yours is probably different.

[6577657534735]

I've heard about that too. I can't tell you much more about the whole Facebook/React thing without revealing where I am employed, so you will just have to take it at face value and interpret it how you want. But I am telling the truth. Usually it's easy to tell when people have been in the industry for a long time, and stuff like algorithms and data structures aren't used as frequently in interviews.

This is just my experience, and yours is probably different.

Look whatever

The fact that you literally don't even know what "Computer Science" is and keep giving bullshit advice just makes me doubt your supposed credentials and the fine details of the story about your friend.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Look whatever

The fact that you literally don't even know what "Computer Science" is and keep giving bullshit advice just makes me doubt your supposed credentials and the fine details of the story about your friend.

I don't think you're understanding the points I'm trying to make, so I suppose I will try to explain them again.

Yes, computer science is important, and I fully understand that you need to understand some key concepts like data structures and algorithms if you want to pass a standard interview given by most tech companies nowadays. These interviews test people on data structures and algorithms because they are pretty much common knowledge between all programmers. While some people may exclusively use Java, and others exclusively Python, those two groups of people still know how data structures work and how to implement them in the language of their choice. Thus, they make for good interview questions.

Data structures and basic algorithms are not difficult to understand by any means, and you can read pretty much everything you need to know about them by picking up a copy of Cracking The Coding Interview. Yes, they are important, but, depending on where you are employed, what project you're working on, and what tools you are using, there is a good chance that you won't be using most of these on a daily basis.

While employers do care about CS fundamentals (mostly for interview purposes), they care a lot more about the kinds of technologies that you've worked with. If you are intimately familiar with React, for example, Facebook is more likely to hire you because they built React, and they use it to power most of Facebook and all of Instagram. To Facebook, a developer who knows the tools they use daily is much more valuable than a developer who can write out the merge sort algorithm by heart.

Does this make sense to you?

[6577657534735]

I don't think you're understanding the points I'm trying to make, so I suppose I will try to explain them again.

Yes, computer science is important, and I fully understand that you need to understand some key concepts like data structures and algorithms if you want to pass a standard interview given by most tech companies nowadays. These interviews test people on data structures and algorithms because they are pretty much common knowledge between all programmers. While some people may exclusively use Java, and others exclusively Python, those two groups of people still know how data structures work and how to implement them in the language of their choice. Thus, they make for good interview questions.

Data structures and basic algorithms are not difficult to understand by any means, and you can read pretty much everything you need to know about them by picking up a copy of Cracking The Coding Interview. Yes, they are important, but, depending on where you are employed, what project you're working on, and what tools you are using, there is a good chance that you won't be using most of these on a daily basis.

While employers do care about CS fundamentals (mostly for interview purposes), they care a lot more about the kinds of technologies that you've worked with. If you are intimately familiar with React, for example, Facebook is more likely to hire you because they built React, and they use it to power most of Facebook and all of Instagram. To Facebook, a developer who knows the tools they use daily is much more valuable than a developer who can write out the merge sort algorithm by heart.

Does this make sense to you?

Dude just stop talking, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and are giving misinformation. What you're saying is unhelpful to people, in fact it's harmful, since it's wrong and BAD advice. Nobody gives a fuck about React, what the fuck is React?

You clearly have not even read CTCI it is not a data structures and algorithms book at all. You are clueless so please stop giving people advice because all of your advice is wrong

Literally are you trolling?

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Dude just stop talking, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and are giving misinformation. What you're saying is unhelpful to people, in fact it's harmful, since it's wrong and BAD advice.

In your opinion. Again, I'm speaking from my experience. Depending on where you have worked, you might have experienced something different. But if OP really wants to do web development, my advice is pretty on-point. Not sure why you are so hostile.

Nobody gives a fuck about React, what the fuck is React?

React is a library that is used to build user interfaces. It was made by Facebook, hence why I said that Facebook is interested in developers who use it (believe it or not, Facebook does actually give a shit about the library they wrote - go figure), and it is used to power websites like Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, and Yahoo, to name a few of the more popular ones. It's almost exclusively used at my place of employment, and one of the reasons I was able to get that job was because of my familiarity with React.

You clearly have not even read CTCI it is not a data structures and algorithms book at all. You are clueless so please stop giving people advice because all of your advice is wrong

I didn't say it was an algorithms and data structures book, I said that pretty much everything you need to know about them can be found in that book. If you had actually read my post, you would have known that it is my opinion that data structures and algorithms are only really used for the interview process, and thus, reading a book that literally has the most common interview questions that involve data structures and algorithms pretty much has all the information that you need to know about the subject. Reading comprehension is not that hard dude.

Literally are you trolling?

Are you? You seem to be awfully angry during this entire exchange.

[6577657534735]

In your opinion. Again, I'm speaking from my experience. Depending on where you have worked, you might have experienced something different. But if OP really wants to do web development, my advice is pretty on-point. Not sure why you are so hostile.


React is a library that is used to build user interfaces. It was made by Facebook, hence why I said that Facebook is interested in developers who use it (believe it or not, Facebook does actually give a shit about the library they wrote - go figure), and it is used to power websites like Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, and Yahoo, to name a few of the more popular ones. It's almost exclusively used at my place of employment, and one of the reasons I was able to get that job was because of my familiarity with React.


I didn't say it was an algorithms and data structures book, I said that pretty much everything you need to know about them can be found in that book. If you had actually read my post, you would have known that it is my opinion that data structures and algorithms are only really used for the interview process, and thus, reading a book that literally has the most common interview questions that involve data structures and algorithms pretty much has all the information that you need to know about the subject. Reading comprehension is not that hard dude.


Are you? You seem to be awfully angry during this entire exchange.

Look maybe "React" will help a person get a job but it's not a replacement for pure CS knowledge, unless you're working at some halfass startup that pays peanuts.

Your advice about CTCI being "all you need to know" about data structures and algorithms is ridiculously wrong. It has some cool little puzzle programs in it but that's about it, nothing about data structures and algorithms in any in-depth way.

Yeah, maybe someone can get a job just by knowing "React" and having only read CTCI, but it won't be a good job. Your advice is harmful and is in line with the people who suggest those retarded "coding bootcamps". Complete misinformation that will harm the futures of the people reading if they listen to you.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Look maybe "React" will help a person get a job but it's not a replacement for pure CS knowledge, unless you're working at some halfass startup that pays peanuts.

Your advice about CTCI being "all you need to know" about data structures and algorithms is ridiculously wrong. It has some cool little puzzle programs in it but that's about it, nothing about data structures and algorithms in any in-depth way.

Yeah, maybe someone can get a job just by knowing "React" and having only read CTCI, but it won't be a good job. Your advice is harmful and is in line with the people who suggest those retarded "coding bootcamps". Complete misinformation that will harm the futures of the people reading if they listen to you.

Funny how on page 1 of this thread, you consider Facebook to be part of "The Big 4" and a high paying company, but on page 3, its as good as a startup that pays peanuts.

You know, if you want an example of people who work at Facebook that don't use these fundamentals that you have such a hard-on for, all you need to do is look at their Github profiles.

Like I've been saying, it depends on what you do for a living. There are CS jobs out there in which knowledge of algorithms and data structures is very important. And there are also highly paying jobs out there that don't require this knowledge. It just seems like you are too dense to understand that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

[6577657534735]

Funny how on page 1 of this thread, you consider Facebook to be part of "The Big 4" and a high paying company, but on page 3, its as good as a startup that pays peanuts.

You know, if you want an example of people who work at Facebook that don't use these fundamentals that you have such a hard-on for, all you need to do is look at their Github profiles.

Like I've been saying, it depends on what you do for a living. There are CS jobs out there in which knowledge of algorithms and data structures is very important. And there are also highly paying jobs out there that don't require this knowledge. It just seems like you are too dense to understand that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

Nobody will get hired at Facebook by knowing "React" and having no knowledge of data structures and algorithms. I don't know why you keep touting this nonsense. It's extra hard without a CS degree as well unless you have a proven track record with lots of work experience. And even then you still need to know your CS fundamentals even better

You've suggested that your friend got hired at FB just for knowing React, now you're suggesting you have. I don't know which it is but I'm extremely skeptical to say the least especially given the other BS you're spouted here for instance "CTCI is all you need to know about data structures and algorithms" when it's not even a data structures and algorithms book

Just stop spewing misinformation and potentially fucking up other peoples futures with your BAD advice.

Name me one company that looks for specific language and framework knowledge and is okay with you knowing nothing about data structures and algorithms. The more reputable a company is, the less they care about what specific languages you have experience with because they realize languages within the same programming paradigm are ridiculously easy to learn once you've learned one if you have a firm foundation.

[JIM NASIUM'S GYMNASIUM]

Nobody will get hired at Facebook by knowing "React" and having no knowledge of data structures and algorithms. I don't know why you keep touting this nonsense. It's extra hard without a CS degree as well unless you have a proven track record with lots of work experience. And even then you still need to know your CS fundamentals even better

I didn't say that someone would get hired with absolutely no knowledge of data structures or algorithms. I said that there are some companies that value the knowledge of the tools they use more, and such, you should know enough about data structures and algorithms to get past the first one or two interviews.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

You've suggested that your friend got hired at FB just for knowing React, now you're suggesting you have. I don't know which it is but I'm extremely skeptical to say the least especially given the other BS you're spouted here for instance "CTCI is all you need to know about data structures and algorithms" when it's not even a data structures and algorithms book

To clarify, I was not hired by Facebook, I said that I know someone who got an offer from Facebook because of the work he was doing with React. He turned it down.

I feel like this is the 3rd time I've stated this, but since you are not particularly good at reading, I will say it again. I know that Cracking The Coding Interview is not an algorithms and data structures book. It is a book that helps you prepare for interviews and gives you common interview practice questions that are mostly made up of algorithms and data structures. Since I have the opinion that these topics are only really useful during the interview process, it makes sense why I would recommend it to give someone the knowledge of data structures and algorithms that they need.

Just stop spewing misinformation and potentially fucking up other peoples futures with your BAD advice.

My advice is based on the experiences that I've had. You might not have had the same experiences, and that's okay, because I know that not all CS related jobs are equal. But there are some developer jobs out there that do not require the knowledge of data structures and algorithms.

If you had read my previous post and looked at some of the Github profiles of Facebook employees, you'd realize that not everyone in the software industry has as much of a hard-on for this stuff as you.

Name me one company that looks for specific language and framework knowledge and is okay with you knowing nothing about data structures and algorithms.

Again, I never said that you should have no knowledge of data structures and algorithms, but just enough to get through the first few interviews. Reading comprehension.

The more reputable a company is, the less they care about what specific languages you have experience with because they realize languages within the same programming paradigm are ridiculously easy to learn once you've learned one if you have a firm foundation.

Not really. A lot of web technologies require you to think in different or non-conventional ways in order to use them effectively. A lot of websites for specific frameworks have sections that describe this. In fact, here's one for React.

You know, this started off as a discussion between two people with different opinions, and quickly turned into you yelling at me because I dared challenge your idea that data structures and algorithms are the absolute most important thing to every single major software company. Are you really so dense that you can't even consider the possibility that this isn't always the case?

[Feanor]

Nobody will get hired at Facebook by knowing "React" and having no knowledge of data structures and algorithms. I don't know why you keep touting this nonsense. It's extra hard without a CS degree as well unless you have a proven track record with lots of work experience. And even then you still need to know your CS fundamentals even better

You've suggested that your friend got hired at FB just for knowing React, now you're suggesting you have. I don't know which it is but I'm extremely skeptical to say the least especially given the other BS you're spouted here for instance "CTCI is all you need to know about data structures and algorithms" when it's not even a data structures and algorithms book

Just stop spewing misinformation and potentially fucking up other peoples futures with your BAD advice.

Name me one company that looks for specific language and framework knowledge and is okay with you knowing nothing about data structures and algorithms. The more reputable a company is, the less they care about what specific languages you have experience with because they realize languages within the same programming paradigm are ridiculously easy to learn once you've learned one if you have a firm foundation.

Tldr;

I read your other posts and your on track but didn't bother reading this one.
OP: In short having a college education in your chosen field really, really helps. It is only not essential to the higher jobs in the field if you are good will hunting. Just pay the bill and do it if you can afford to do it and your passionate about it and you are confident in you abilities, if you just want to do web apps and other easier high level stuff just finish whatever courses you've started but keep learning the complete ins and outs of your scripting language and don't debt yourself out with more eduation, but keep in mind if you ever want to work on projects at google and facebook you'll most likely have to go back to uni but go to the job interviews before you go back to uni if you ever want those jobs.