[Machiavellian101]

Note: thread may be subjected to being updated.

After taking time to properly (although recreationally) study and still in the study of strength training I have decided that I might do the 5X5 program but with some modifications. One of the things I like about the 5X5 program is that it involves compound exercises which use more than one muscle group. And these compound exercises I think are also ideal for those that want to compete. You will be transforming body shape here but you also will be better equipped to handle various competitive sports. Isolation exercises like isolated bicep curls are good if your aim is to mainly look good. However with big compound exercise I believe you can look still look good and be good.

Moreover I have decided that even though the 5x5 program suggests starting off light I think that in order to gain quicker advances in strength and muscle mass would be to start off with high percentage of your one rep maximum. Although I am not sure percentage that is yet. This way you will be shocking your body in action and it's going to have to adapt fast! I am also considering here going 3 sets of 5 instead of 5X5 (I am not quite sure here yet?). However the last rep on the last set should be either to or almost to the point of failure. Once the body has adapted and is capable of going through this duress with a lot more ease it's time to increase the weight.

Now a thing I am not sure about here is if I should get straight into this or go through the strength endurance stage, then the hypertrophy stage, and then finally the strength training stage (a cycle mentioned to me by a fitness instructor). I cannot currently see however that repeating this cycle would add to quick advances in strength; I worry that by the time I get to the strength training stage it would be like starting over again.

One more thing that I am still not sure about is the cardio training here. What I do know however is that I initially made a mistake when working out a little while ago by doing cardio and weights on the same day. What I did on some days was 1.5k on the cross trainer, 24 stair climbers and then 2000m on the rowing machine before hitting the weight and I now realize this is/was counterproductive. By the time I hit the weights after doing this cardio I am/was probably too muscle tired to lift what I would be able to do if I had only just done a five minute warm up. I think some of us tend to forget that when we're doing cardio we're using the same muscles as what we are when we are doing weight lifting but just in a different way. And I think by doing cardio and weight training on the same day like this could also mean that our body is eating up too many resources and then this inevitably leads to maladaptation. And so the end result here I think is that the body is merely just focusing on recovering to it's normal healthy state much rather than going through any adaptation phase in order for the body to prepare itself for more duress.

However the thing about cardio that I am not sure about is if I should just cut it out altogether except for the 5 minute cardio warm up just to get the blood to the muscles before doing the weight training. And then this would mean just training 3 days a week instead of 5. My concern here is that I if I do cardio the day after doing a full body workout with compound exercises I am still not giving my body the amount of time it needs to recover.

I think I have covered pretty much everything I want to here. As you can see I have some things I am not sure about here and any help with this would much appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

[Kayoz]

Regarding the cardio: The intensity of cardio is usually not high enough to disturb the recovery of the muscles. Think about it; you use the same muscles that you use for running on a every-day basis. The difference is just that you do it a bit more than normally. Of course this is just speculation since I'm not educated in this field.

[UNDERWIRE]

No, you don't need to alternate phases like that, especially as a beginner. You'll get plenty of each of those on 5x5 so long as you take in enough calories to promote growth. Start off relatively light even if you have trained. It gives you a chance to work on form and range of movement before risking potential injury with higher weights, and it helps get the most out of linear progression. Cardio actually helps improve recovery to some degree, you won't get to the amount needed to negatively effect protein synthesis levels, unless you are regularly training for a marathon or something. If anything a lot of cardio might make it difficult to be eat more than you burn for weight gain.

[Babz]

I'm not here to bash you dude but if you are unsure about any of these beliefs you have presented, it's better off you keep it off the forum. Also, back yourself up! You said, "This way you will be shocking your body in action and it's going to have to adapt fast! I am also considering here going 3 sets of 5 instead of 5X5 (I am not quite sure here yet?)." Don't say you don't know why! Mention how you think lower volume can help improve yourself compared to the two other sets.

I am also an advocate for 3x5 instead of 5x5.

[Machiavellian101]

I'm not here to bash you dude but if you are unsure about any of these beliefs you have presented, it's better off you keep it off the forum. Also, back yourself up! You said, "This way you will be shocking your body in action and it's going to have to adapt fast! I am also considering here going 3 sets of 5 instead of 5X5 (I am not quite sure here yet?)." Don't say you don't know why! Mention how you think lower volume can help improve yourself compared to the two other sets.

I am also an advocate for 3x5 instead of 5x5.

This thread is not a tutorial. Anyway I have adjusted the title to avoid any further confusion.

[Caliban]

5x5 is a nice program for beginners. I used it back when i was 16 and a total nonlifter and it worked great to build up a strength base. No need to modify anything man

[Machiavellian101]

5x5 is a nice program for beginners. I used it back when i was 16 and a total nonlifter and it worked great to build up a strength base. No need to modify anything man

What about endurance and hypertrophy? Would by repeating these cycles enable more lifting when reaching the strength training phase next time around?

[kuttakameena]

If you are a beginner stay with 5x5. You shouldn't go for your maxes as you haven't developed a motor pattern for the major compound movements. If you do 3x5 with close-to-max weights it will affect your lifestyle, your CNS (central nervous system). You'll be dead tired which will have an impact on your work, training, and social events. Your body is not ready to take that amount of stress. You should be doing 3x5 after you have already established the 5x5 foundation; assuming you have already started lifting. If you are just starting to lift, you have no business doing 3x5 or 5x5, focus on hypertrophy first which is 3x12. Why? Look at my reasons above.

I don't think you should confuse weight adaptation with strength because human joints are very feeble; just look at what happens when we sit for too long, or put our head on our shoulder. I can do standing OHP 135lb for 5x3-4, that doesn't mean I should shock my body with 150lb and put my joints under stress it cannot handle. It will lead to joint stress, and ineffective performance in the rest of the workout. I might test 150lb on a day where I am doing nothing but that one exercise with some EASY accessory movements. Aside from that confusing the body with heavy weight can do some damage.

Regarding cardio, my workouts are very intense. By the time I am done, I am sure my glucose levels are extremely low. I do cardio only on my rest days now for that reason. It is possible to do cardio on the training day, it really depends on how intensive and long the workout is. If you have enough energy to do cardio, do cardio. You'll know you are overtraining if you feel like shit during cardio or the workout.

You don't have to do a cardio session before lifting. You can do dynamic stretches, foam rolling, mobility work which in itself will keep the blood flowing. I do this and I love it.

You also don't have to use the gym ellipticals to do cardio. Pick any physical activity you like and do it often.
I like to dance, cycle and hike, and I do one of them on my rest day.

[Machiavellian101]

If you are a beginner stay with 5x5. You shouldn't go for your maxes as you haven't developed a motor pattern for the major compound movements. If you do 3x5 with close-to-max weights it will affect your lifestyle, your CNS (central nervous system). You'll be dead tired which will have an impact on your work, training, and social events. Your body is not ready to take that amount of stress. You should be doing 3x5 after you have already established the 5x5 foundation; assuming you have already started lifting. If you are just starting to lift, you have no business doing 3x5 or 5x5, focus on hypertrophy first which is 3x12. Why? Look at my reasons above.

I don't think you should confuse weight adaptation with strength because human joints are very feeble; just look at what happens when we sit for too long, or put our head on our shoulder. I can do standing OHP 135lb for 5x3-4, that doesn't mean I should shock my body with 150lb and put my joints under stress it cannot handle. It will lead to joint stress, and ineffective performance in the rest of the workout. I might test 150lb on a day where I am doing nothing but that one exercise with some EASY accessory movements. Aside from that confusing the body with heavy weight can do some damage.

Regarding cardio, my workouts are very intense. By the time I am done, I am sure my glucose levels are extremely low. I do cardio only on my rest days now for that reason. It is possible to do cardio on the training day, it really depends on how intensive and long the workout is. If you have enough energy to do cardio, do cardio. You'll know you are overtraining if you feel like shit during cardio or the workout.

You don't have to do a cardio session before lifting. You can do dynamic stretches, foam rolling, mobility work which in itself will keep the blood flowing. I do this and I love it.

You also don't have to use the gym ellipticals to do cardio. Pick any physical activity you like and do it often.
I like to dance, cycle and hike, and I do one of them on my rest day.

Okay, thanks for the great advice. But what about repeating the strength endurance and hypertrophy stage and would be repeating these stages compliment the actual pure strength training stages?