[Tonight]

Hi y'all.

First off, I'm not trying to stir the pot and set any individual or group off, just sharing my feedback on help desks and how they are failing and what should be done instead.

Again, in my -- unprofessional -- opinion

-----

You've likely seen them before, they flood most sections.

[SO-AND-SO'S HELP DESK] or [SOME GROUP'S HELP DESK]

I'm no stranger to the idea of groups on HF and I understand that most groups try and make an effort to better the forum.

My issue isn't with that, it's with the simulated sense of duty and entitlement.

These help desks more often than not are just a mirage of a group's image and if you delve deeper into the threads you'll find they're filled with 90% group members cheering it on with, "great help desk, so-an-so's very smart" and other watered down similar comments.

Most help desks die within a week (assuming they're not bumped by the OP responding to the other group members with "thanks man! looking to help!")

Over my years on the forum I've been apart of 70% of the groups post-2012 or so and I know it's tradition to force your group members to make an effort to contribute to the forum.

This next part is important.

Stop forcing your members to appear helpful, and let the genuine helpful contributors do as they normally do - those are the guys you want.

Recently I joined a group (in part out of curiosity since I haven't been in an active group since 2015) and was astonished by the amount of forced effort the leaders were trying to push onto its members - so I left after a few days.

This was shortly after not logging onto the forum for four days and logging back onto "YOU'VE BEEN ISSUED A WARNING" PMs from said group's unofficial (haha) leaders.

People have lives, and this forum isn't everyone's life.

This website is a great resource, I'm testament to that.

-----

My advice to the group leaders and members who are looking to contribute in a positive manor instead of help desks that nobody reads:

Go to those who need help, don't wait for them to come to you - they likely won't

A new member or someone who has an issue in your specialty is not going to search for a help desk when they run into an issue, they're going to make their own thread or look for similar threads to their problem.

If you want to contribute, post frequently and help the members of a particular section frequently.

Answer questions, PM those in need advice or personal tips, point them in the right direction, etc.

Don't become a facade for the 'good' on this forum. Anyone who's been around long enough can see right though it.

Thanks for reading, group leaders of 2017 take notes.

(No I won't join your group 😝)

[Soulmate～っ☆]

Go to those who need help, don't wait for them to come to you - they likely won't

A new member or someone who has an issue in your specialty is not going to search for a help desk when they run into an issue, they're going to make their own thread or look for similar threads to their problem.

If you want to contribute, post frequently and help the members of a particular section frequently.

Answer questions, PM those in need advice or personal tips, point them in the right direction, etc.

Don't become a facade for the 'good' on this forum. Anyone who's been around long enough can see right though it.

Thanks for reading, group leaders of 2017 take notes.

(No I won't join your group 😝)

This was the exact point of Equilibrium and the part I agree with, instead of posting useless threads I would try to make the members choose a few sections and post and answer as many questions as possible.

As for the help desks, I think most are just required by the groups people are posting them with. I'm also a fan of the guide + help desk but I haven't seen many others besides mine. What would you opinion on this one be though? It has been up for almost a year but has had a few dry periods where it was inactive. Besides that, it has gathered almost 200 posts.
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5425974

[VirtualFrost]

This was the exact point of Equilibrium and the part I agree with, instead of posting useless threads I would try to make the members choose a few sections and post and answer as many questions as possible.

This is a good way to go, I'd be way more publicly active if I was just in one section answering other peoples questions, rather than sitting in the subforum trying to make a mega tut thread or making one helpdesk thread.

Having a person regularly in one section responding to threads with good answers is good to see cause you know you'll get the help you need.

OT: For the part about activity, I've always been 50/50 on this, I understand it's there so members aren't just joining and then going inactive so it just fills the group with nothing to contribute, but at the same time for those that do try but can't meet requirements because they're also busy IRL. In the end people pay thousands for their groups so if they want to be strict on their rules, they can go for it.

[Parks]

I didn't post my help desk for my groups image at the time.. I just wanted a sticky?

[Tonight]

This was the exact point of Equilibrium and the part I agree with, instead of posting useless threads I would try to make the members choose a few sections and post and answer as many questions as possible.

As for the help desks, I think most are just required by the groups people are posting them with. I'm also a fan of the guide + help desk but I haven't seen many others besides mine. What would you opinion on this one be though? It has been up for almost a year but has had a few dry periods where it was inactive. Besides that, it has gathered almost 200 posts.

https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5425974

Guides are an invaluable resource if well done.

The forced generic help desks are the issue at hand.

I don't mean to single anyone out, but here's a few examples.

• Influence | Coding Help Desk
  
• [Influence] Official Graphic Help Desk | We Have YOUR Answers & More!
  
• Influence | Video Editing Requests & Help Desk
  
• [Influence] Social Media Help Desk
  
• | Dawn Innuendo | Stress Support / Help Desk
  

All of these are just flooded with group members cheering from the sidelines but I don't see anyone actually helping.

If these 'contributors' are so helpful, why aren't they posting outside of their subforum ever?

I didn't post my help desk for my groups image at the time.. I just wanted a sticky?

How is that even somewhat relevant to the conversation?

[Parks]

How is that even somewhat relevant to the conversation?

I just wanted to be apart of the convo :( very lonely. I agree with help desk opinion though there now im relevant.

[NurSpec]

Agree with basically everything you said.. one of the most accurate posts I've seen in a while.

[Targus]

What's the difference between posting in a helpdesk for help and creating a thread for help?

[70s]

Agreed, I dont think ive ever seen a help desk that truly helpful.

[2073436]

Exactly, forcefully making members push out helpdesks doesn't feel like the right way.
Well said OP - valid opinion.

[Froggy]

I can agree with this. Not only that, but let's say that members did post in help desks looking for help: that would result in less threads being made, and how does that help HF?

[AvessoVision]

Guides are an invaluable resource if well done.
The forced generic help desks are the issue at hand.
I don't mean to single anyone out, but here's a few examples.

• [Influence] Official Graphic Help Desk | We Have YOUR Answers & More!
  

All of these are just flooded with group members cheering from the sidelines but I don't see anyone actually helping.

If these 'contributors' are so helpful, why aren't they posting outside of their subforum ever?

So basically what you are saying at least towards my area of expertise is that we aren't actually helping outside our subforum?

I've been giving people proper criticism and feedback eversince I joined the forum without anyone pushing my back ordering me what to do. And to date that hasn't changed. Yes I've joined Influence due to the idea that went behind towards the GFX area and yes I wanted to help there.

Not many people are actually going to check the help desk but I don't single people out and I'm helping whoever I can and I'm sharing my graphic knowledge with everyone that asks if its in a thread or via PM.

I might not be great at whatever else the forum has to offer, but I have my graphics expertise on which I base my level, allowing me to improve on a daily basis as well helping others excell.
I can count a few other artists that do the exact same thing which have been a key to our group and we will manage to only move forward to better things.

Thank you for your opinion, but on this sector we do our best.

[Lukas]

In reference to Influence's GFX division:

We host these help desks to offer our PROFESSIONAL assistance to aspiring designers who find themselves in a position in which they don't know how to get out of, in the topic of graphic design. I can't speak for all prior or even current help desks, but one service you pointed out, my group's, is full of users that design for a living or own any type of business performing this art. I can't believe you have the audacity to say we're standing on the sidelines offering no help, you're ridiculous. When I was assigned my position in Influence, I was given one task. That one task was to make my division successful. I spent days seeking out designers who benefit the community and excel in their field, whether they focus on posting their designs seeking feedback, while also offering tips, or write 5 descriptive paragraphs helping a rookie create a thread design that doesn't look like utter shit. I wasn't forced to do anything by anyone other than myself. I wanted to save myself the embarrassment, so until I had all of my functioning parts working together within the group, I thought to open a help desk to get our name out to begin with.

No one is being forced in Influence. If members want to maintain their role in the group, they CHOOSE to participate. My designers are beyond active (besides 2 bc of college rn) and this is how I expect them to be throughout the entirety of my leadership. I don't have to remind them to post, participate, or design something to continue being a member, they do it THEMSELVES. You're an oldfag, as am I. I'm truly astonished by this thread as you're essentially speaking for all groups forum wide, after being in one group for a few days, lol nice. I understand the concept of a social life, work life, relationships, school, and so on. I have them all myself. I'm a lenient 'unofficial leader' per your wording, so I cut my members slack when they have to deal with something. Of course I expect them to notify me, which they have, and so I respect them for that.

Regarding your comments on going out of our way to seek out users who need help:
How? How do you expect a team of 5 or 6 designers who "have lives" per your words again, to venture out amongst this WHOLE forum and offer assistance to every single individual that needs help. A bit condescending don't you think?

Regarding this post:
Our help desk is not forced, once again. Your comments regarding my designers and myself standing on the sidelines offering no assistance is blasphemous and utterly ridiculous. Not all of our feedback and assistance is on that thread. We've made our way around the forum, mainly in the Rate My Graphic section, and offer valuable feedback to users who desire opinions and feedback regarding improvements to be made. I don't think you did thorough research before posting this thread. I'm not being disrespectful, nor am I trying to flame you, but I don't understand how you think group assistance is useless.

Thanks.

[SIM-1729678]

Next time that you are calling me out. Put my name next to it.
You are clearly calling out Influence, so stop trying to say that you are not calling out anyone

You were in the group for 7+ days and didn't even bother trying to contact your division leader so that they could continue on their project.

"YOU'VE BEEN ISSUED A WARNING"??
Making it dramatic much?

[Tonight]

Next time that you are calling me out. Put my name next to it.
You are clearly calling out Influence, so stop trying to say that you are not calling out anyone

I'm not calling out your beloved group, I'm stating my opinion on forced help desks to appear 'high quality' in the eyes of forum members.

This has been something on my mind for a while now, your group is just a great example to show what I'm talking about.

You were in the group for 7+ days and didn't even bother trying to contact your division leader so that they could continue on their project.

I was in a 'general help division' and from what I gathered, nobody had zero clue what they were even supposed to be doing. How generic is 'general help'?

I'd be confused too.

"YOU'VE BEEN ISSUED A WARNING"??
Making it dramatic much?
Spoiler (Click to View)

You messaged me on Discord (which I don't even use) a few times as well before I saw this PM.

Y'all messaged me like four times in a week to go out and 'help' the forum lol.

Yeah pretty much. Generic threads due to members wanting to look quality for their new group which only consist of the whole group vouching for someone they have only probably just met.

Again, anyone who's been here long enough can see right through it.

There's a reason only people who registered in 2016 or 2017 are arguing with me.

I can agree with this. Not only that, but let's say that members did post in help desks looking for help: that would result in less threads being made, and how does that help HF?

The more threads with answered questions in them, the better.

So basically what you are saying at least towards my area of expertise is that we aren't actually helping outside our subforum?

Sounds like you're putting words in my mouth there.

A help desk may have a few valid questions answered in them but generally speaking they're a facade.

Not many people are actually going to check the help desk but...

Let me stop you there.

You're an oldfag, as am I. I'm truly astonished by this thread as you're essentially speaking for all groups forum wide, after being in one group for a few days, lol nice.

I've been in almost every group on this forum post-2012, even led a few.

I'm speaking for the majority of these groups whose mission statement is to help the forum and by doing that they're forcing their members to generate a false sense of duty in their contributions.

How do you expect a team of 5 or 6 designers who "have lives" per your words again, to venture out amongst this WHOLE forum and offer assistance to every single individual that needs help. A bit condescending don't you think?

Simple. I don't expect them to.

But helping out when they can is loads more beneficial than a dead help desk thread cluttered with "great thread!" posts.

I'm not being disrespectful, nor am I trying to flame you, but I don't understand how you think group assistance is useless.

I see we're just jumping to conclusions all over the place today.