[Omniscient]

What does HF do to stop scammers and protect the community?

Over the years our site has evolved tremendously in both features and policies in dealing with scammers.

Originally HF was like the Wild West and protecting yourself from scammers was something you had to do on your own. The main system to spot scammers at first was our Reputation system which members would leave comments like "Deal With Caution". We did not allow you to libel members by calling them scammers.

Then we added a Deal Dispute forum where those who did feel they were scammed could create a thread. Only if there was a thread linked inside the Reputation system could you call someone a scammer. This was a reasonable step but was definitely just as much of a problem with abuse as it was helpful.

We eventually added a Deal Dispute Database where you could enter information about the deal and other members could search for UIDs of others to see if they had any disputes. Another good step toward catching scammers faster but unfortunately it was under-used.

Next step for HF was the innovative and original creation of Trust Scan. With TS you were given some additional statistical data about an account. Such as how many unique logins they had or if their password was recently changed. Scammers at this time had evolved into buying existing accounts with high reputation and no deal disputes in order to exit scam. This was definitely a problem we tried to help the community solve with TS. One of our best features and still part of account checking even today.

Now we have a new innovative feature called HF Contracts or just Contracts. We created a full Marketplace Control Panel with Marketplace Profiles for all members. Part of HF's recent policies is that all deals originating on HF must have a Contract and that dealing off-site without a Contract is not allowed. The reason being is that a ton of scammers will convince you to do a deal off-site at places such as Discord and scam you. Then you will only have off-site proof of the deal and we do not allow you to use that in a dispute.

Currently you cannot create a Deal Dispute thread without an HF Contract, and when you Dispute a Contract it's automatically created. All Marketplace section threads have a Contract creation button. Anyone caught soliciting off-site deals without Contracts is usually closed but sometimes just warned. B-Ratings (Business Ratings) are part of everyone Marketplace Profile and gives you data on the deals sort of like the old Reputation system. Old Reputations are now Popularity instead and offer no value for Marketplace activity. There is a Vendor group who are approved manually and given additional Contract and Marketplace features such as Contract Templates which use Auto-Buy links. Only those in a Complete Contract can vouch in a thread. Fake vouches are not allowed and usually punishment is harsh for violations.

I get asked quite often what does HF do to stop scammers. I think we do a lot. Mainly we provide excellent features for you to make a decision on who you deal with. We do not get involved in Disputes but that's always been an HF policy and will remain so. Deals you make are always at your own risk and this is stated all over the site including Help Docs and the Contracts page. But this is not to say we don't take action against scammers. I personally close accounts every single day and mark them as scammers in the Mod Notes. Then when they return they are immediately closed. Often scammers make mistakes by violating one of the many policies we have and in such cases that's the only reason I need to take action.

HF will continue to evolve our strategy to lower deal disputes. Currently Contract Disputes are around 3% and many Disputed deals are Resolved through our process.

HF is not going to hold your hand in deals. We are not here to protect you from yourself. The tools provided to you exist for a reason, use them please. And understand we do a lot more to protect the community as a whole than we do to protect individual members who make poor choices.

Please familiarize yourself with HF policies and best-practices when making deals on HF. We implore you to make smart decisions but most of all...do not blame us when you don't.

Thank you.

[Pyro]

Pretty good elaboration on how HF evolved trough years

I've joined HF cause of CE section and I never got scammed cause I used my brain together with all the tools HF provides, and I must say, it was enough. If someone gets scammed it's because of their fault, not HF's

Long live HF !

[Mad76e.]

Problem isnt you Omni. The problem are stupid ppl not doing some proper research. I mean "why" does this one have 3 disputes? coincidences?, hardly!

[NNiks19]

You did great system, people just need to learn how to use it :D

[Natas]

I love the popularity system it reminds me of shopping on ebay and its really as easy as using the ebay feedback system.
literally people are setting there selfs up for there own failure by not following this.

[Omniscient]

Been meaning to write something like this for a while. I just need something to link to when I get these stupid contacts from new members that ignore the PM we send them on joining that blame HF for a scam. Just had 2 of them this morning. Both new members who did deals without Contracts, claimed they didn't know, then asked me why these members are on HF.

Point blank I told both of them they are morons and that these scammers are here because they are easy targets to prey on. We make tools and features constantly but if members ignore them, they get scammed. Almost a guarantee that if you tell a member you want an HF Contract they will either try to convince you don't need it (obvious scammer) or they will suddenly not want to complete the deal.

Scammers know they get caught and often closed by making Contracts and a Dispute will likely mean no one else will deal with them.

[Natas]

Your doing a great job Omni I remember when the market place was like the wild west lol
that was a good way of putting it this site has evolved a lot since then. Its not your fault
people are so stupid there literally breaking the rules and then pming you about it by
not having a contract in the first place lmao

[Deal]

Nothing more to do than what's done.
The contract system is the best thing that has happened.

The exit scams that happens occasionally are problematic, because there are no way to prevent them. Someone can have 200 positive B-ratings, and then all of a sudden decide to exit scam.

I have seen you releasing some informations on some confirmed scammers which is nice.

As for stupid members, you can't do nothing to prevent stupid members of getting scammed.
I have seen so many deal disputes regarding the user money. People asking "Why doesn't Omni ban him" well.. Why don't you look at his 11 fucking deal disputes before dealing with him.
I have said it before, if someone deals with anyone who has open deal disputes, then it is on them if they do get scammed.

The contract system has helped HF. But it's not a magic cure to two things:

Dumb members
Exit scammers.

There are no cure to these things. In my 10 years here I have never been scammed. Am I lucky? Probably. But there are numerous threads on how to minimise risks of getting scammed, there are the contract system, B-ratings, you can check their trust score, see their previous posts.

Also something I always think when I deal with someone. Would they lose their account for this amount?

Look at registration date. Did the user register 6 months ago? And has hardly posted, hasn't donated, isn't a part of the group scene? Then he would have no issues with scamming you because he would have nothing to lose.

Does the user have awards, is active within the group scene, has donated, has some sort of business going on here? Then he most likely won't scam for some low amount like 500 dollars.

I'm not saying that members who are inactive and new will scam, and I don't say that members who are in the high-end won't. I am saying that when dealing online it's simply about minimising the risk.

TL;DR:
No further measures to be taken, people should learn to do research, and use common sense before dealing. And it's nearly impossible to take measures against exit scammers.



Furthermore, is it the fault of Hackforums when people get scammed? No. Is it the fault of Facebook when people get scammed there? No. No one blames Facebook when getting scammed there, but everyone blames Hackforums when scammed here. So fucking stupid


PS. You bitches whining about it being the fault of HF that you get scammed... Fuck off dumbasses

[Wheelie]

I think since the beginning, HF has really implemented the proper security measures and certain behavior to look out for
I remember the launch of the Contracts feature and people weren't feeling it, mixed emotions from a lot of people but
then people started adapting to the system and saw the bigger picture. Yes people lost the rep they worked hard for but
change is always good and i think its the best way to keep track and return to reference what was between the buyer and
seller.

I know the admins don't get involved with our deals that happen on site but if they do take action if its a repeated action
being done. So much respect for that. HF has only gotten better.

[Kaleb]

There's nothing more you could do, I think all the features you mentioned are great and provide some cushioning but when you deal on a forum like this there's always the risk of getting scammed and you should totally accept that. Someone could have a massive amount of vouches and seem reputable and decide to exit scam and that's just unfortunate for you but it should always be something you're accepting may happen.

[Cryptod]

Nothing more to do than what's done.
The contract system is the best thing that has happened.

The exit scams that happens occasionally are problematic, because there are no way to prevent them. Someone can have 200 positive B-ratings, and then all of a sudden decide to exit scam.

I have seen you releasing some informations on some confirmed scammers which is nice.

As for stupid members, you can't do nothing to prevent stupid members of getting scammed.
I have seen so many deal disputes regarding the user money. People asking "Why doesn't Omni ban him" well.. Why don't you look at his 11 fugging deal disputes before dealing with him.
I have said it before, if someone deals with anyone who has open deal disputes, then it is on them if they do get scammed.

The contract system has helped HF. But it's not a magic cure to two things:

Dumb members
Exit scammers.

There are no cure to these things. In my 10 years here I have never been scammed. Am I lucky? Probably. But there are numerous threads on how to minimise risks of getting scammed, there are the contract system, B-ratings, you can check their trust score, see their previous posts.

Also something I always think when I deal with someone. Would they lose their account for this amount?

Look at registration date. Did the user register 6 months ago? And has hardly posted, hasn't donated, isn't a part of the group scene? Then he would have no issues with scamming you because he would have nothing to lose.

Does the user have awards, is active within the group scene, has donated, has some sort of business going on here? Then he most likely won't scam for some low amount like 500 dollars.

I'm not saying that members who are inactive and new will scam, and I don't say that members who are in the high-end won't. I am saying that when dealing online it's simply about minimising the risk.

TL;DR:
No further measures to be taken, people should learn to do research, and use common sense before dealing. And it's nearly impossible to take measures against exit scammers.



Furthermore, is it the fault of Hackforums when people get scammed? No. Is it the fault of Facebook when people get scammed there? No. No one blames Facebook when getting scammed there, but everyone blames Hackforums when scammed here. So fugging stupid

I like everything you said here.
I think people that get scammed easily deserved to get scammed to condition them not to get scammed.

Whenever I buy any type of product even if its $1 (which isn't much) I always do my research on the product.
For example, when I go on Amazon - I check reviews.

Same thing with any forum - Same thing with any purchase.

You can't always save consumers from getting scammed.
The contract system is Amazing and honestly the closest thing to prevent scamming next to a valid middle man.

There will always be exit scammers and there's really nothing you can do to prevent them.
People just need to be aware and be careful.

In the past week I've transacted over $3000 in crypto exchanges with 0 issues.
I make sure the person is valid - I start with smaller values and I make sure every deal is on site and we PM for every deal done.

It's really that simple yet people still get scammed.
Nothing we can do really honestly after the contract system.

[Omniscient]

The exit scams that happens occasionally are problematic,

Actually the risk is lessened if you used Contracts and check recent activity. Exit scammers work hard to create as many deals in a short period of time as possible. If you see someone doing quick and recent 2-3 Contracts that are active but not Completed you should be suspicious and wait till some of those deals get Completed before opening a new Contract. And in such cases it helps me close those accounts quickly.

No one blames Facebook when getting scammed there, but everyone blames Hackforums when scammed here. So fugging stupid

https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5953973

[Deal]

Actually the risk is lessened if you used Contracts and check recent activity.  Exit scammers work hard to create as many deals in a short period of time as possible.  If you see someone doing quick and recent 2-3 Contracts that are active but not Completed you should be suspicious and wait till some of those deals get Completed before opening a new Contract. And in such cases it helps me close those accounts quickly.


https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5953973

I agree. There are basic measures which will prevent scams.
Problem is often people are too fucking stupid to use them. Either that, or they are somewhat desperate and naive.

[SoulZeh]

Problem isnt you Omni. Problem are stupid ppl not doing some proper research. I mean "why" does this one have 3 disputes? coincidences?, hardly!

Can agree with this, you've done legit done everything you can as a "host,"admin". and still people seem to find the need to complain to you, I will still never understand that part when this website has came so much further compared to what it use to be when dealing with disputes.

You and Xerotic (can't leave him out) when it comes to Deal Disputes have tried everything to make it... Well "simple" for people...

I will always quote what Factor8 once said to me.. "Let morons be morons".

[+mK]

I've been thinking about this lately, but suggestion/food for thought to expand it (not sure if it's a dumb one):

Create an algorithm of points for Trust Scan to make it a grading scale. For example: Matching IPs to other members might have a higher grading standard. If that that grading standard is lower (or higher, depending on which way you look at it), that user can't create a marketplace contract. It removes almost all possibilities of an end user NOT looking at Trust Scan for statistics on the user they're looking into. I think the data that is harvest for TS can severely hinder the deal disputes for someone who simply "forgot" to look at a Trust Scan for an individual. An algorithm that is very similar to what prestige was doing, however, it'd be different data points and the number would be a percentage.