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Redacted

Since Serenity has come to its end, and Logic is in the process of being sold, there will be no current debate groups on HF. I see this as a huge disappointment, and in spite of this, I am going to form an unofficial debate group using a previous Logic Recruitment thread's application.

Application Form:

Code
[list]
[*]Profile Link:
[*]Age:
[*]Questions:
[*]Q1 / Answer
[*]Q2 / Answer
[*]Q3 / Answer
[*]Political Affiliation:
[*]Sexual Orientation:
[*]Sex:
[*]What is God to you?
[*]Religion:
[*]In one sentence, describe yourself.  
[/list]

When you are creating your questions, they can be about anything, although as a debate group, I would prefer them to be controversial and relatively intellectually stimulating.

The requirements for this group is as follows:
  • 500 or more posts total

  • 75 or more high quality posts within the S.R.P.P Section

  • 0-10% Warning Level

  • An open mind

  • Skype

  • Positive Reputation





NOTES:
-I urge you to take your time when crafting your application, we are in no rush.
-I wish luck to all members that apply. Remember, the more thought you put into your application, the better it usually becomes.
-Please do not PM me about your acceptance into the group. I will edit the OP with a log of who has been accepted and who has not.


If you have any questions regarding the unofficial group 'Deductive', send me a PM here
Profile Link: https://hackforums.net/member.php?act...id=1193715


Age: 17


Questions



Q1: Can the actions of Anonymous be justified?
Answer:
What/Who is Anonymous:
Anonymous is a loosely associated hacktivist group, in which case the term 'group' should be interpreted loosely as well. There is no actual group or leadership, nor is there a way to enter or join the group. One is instantly a part of Anonymous as soon as he/she wants to. Anonymous is a large group of anonymous people representing and supporting an idea through activism and hacking. They have a large influence on society through the internet and their actions always get media attention due to the size of it.

What actions did Anonymous perform:
Anonymous has repeatedly DDoS'ed and defaced multiple websites related to governments of various countries, including the U.S., and those of many different companies and organisations.

Why it can be justified:
Anonymous fights for freedom, justice, and fights against (online) censorship. They have attacked the website of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI), which is responsible for safeguarding recording artists' rights, in order to speak their voice and let the IFPI know censorship is not being tolerated by Anonymous.
The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), and later PIPA and CISPA are seen as major attacks on the anonymity and privacy of all internet users, the acts would limit users online and seriously shrink the ability of sharing digital content and freedom of speech.

They have also organized operation Darknet, which was meant to not only DDoS many child porn sites available in the deep web but also release many user names of people being a member of these sites. They are fighting against child porn and pedophilia every single day.

Why it cannot be justified:
Numerous attacks on the Sony network and leaks with lists of personal details and log in credentials of various companies have caused issues while loading websites, and losing ownership of various accounts online. Especially gamers were seriously damaged by these actions as the PlayStation Network had to be shut down for maintenance during and after the attacks.

Even though Anonymous claims to be wanting to fight censorship and wishes to keep the internet an open space accessible for anyone, they somehow contradict themselves by leaking personal information of thousands of people, as well as denying people access to websites through DDoS attacks on those websites.

The sole fact of DDoS'ing and defacing websites, and spreading personal information, is illegal and a crime. Making a point, speaking your voice and protecting your ideology through committing crime is wrong.

Anonymous is also trying to be involved in politics by repeatedly DDoS'ing the governmental websites of those political parties of countries they do not support, or are against. This is actually blocking those governments from functioning correctly and does not help in solving any possible political or social conflicts at all.



Q2: Does real freedom of speech still exist or has it been limited?
Answer:
What is freedom of speech?
This is the political right to express your opinions and ideas through any form or medium you wish to use. It is also written under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Legal limits existing since the existence of the right of free speech:
The Declaration also states that no human being should be subject to any form of discrimination, in which case someone's words may offend another person, such as a racist statement. This is disallowed, thus is limiting a person from expressing his thoughts or opinion. This is rather controversial and contradictory in some occasions, and in real situations, a judge is needed to decide whether a person has actually offended a person or not, or whether he/she has the right to say certain things in public. Even though laws and country-specific rules exist to narrow down contradictions and situations which are hard to solve, I sometimes still see situations in the media in which case the side of the government or corporate is chosen above the side of the opponent, usually a citizen or a single human being, even if a judge would prove the opponent right, in another case, the chances are 50% that the other side would be proven right.

I personally find the fact that a contradictory situation is allowed, a huge fallacy in the Declaration, and in the constitutional law of many countries. An actual example is the following: Geert Wilders, a Dutch politician who is against immigration and Islamic mosques, has repeatedly told people in public what he thinks about non-Dutch civilians and immigrants in The Netherlands. Many of his statements were offensive and seen as racism and hate speech, in which case he wanted other people to hate Muslims. This has been reported and he had to appear in front of court, where he was charged for many of his accusations. Later, he was acquitted by the court of all charges, because the judge found that the statements were acceptable within the context of public debate.

This example shows that drawing a line between discrimination, racism & hate speech on one side, and the freedom of speech on the other side, is very hard to draw.

In other words, we are being limited on occasion, and not in general.
I'm not covering internet censorship as these are laws and/or decisions made by the government of the country in question.



Q3: What is the best way to tax someone's income?
Answer:
In order to be able to answer this question, let me explain the two most common situations:

Taxes should be based on the size of your income = progressive taxes: This pretty much means that there is a fixed formula or even a percentage which, based on your monthly income, defines how much taxes you are supposed to pay to your government. A person earning $1,000 would have to pay 35% or $350, while a person earning $25,000 would have to pay 25x $350 or $8,750 in taxes.

In my opinion this is beneficial for the government, as someone who has a higher income, automatically is regarded as a wealthier person and for the fact that he/she is allowed and able to make a lot of profit, he/she should pay more taxes in return, to the government.

Taxes should be fixed and equal for every body: This means that your loan or income does not affect the amount of taxes you have to pay. This is beneficial for the wealthier people, as they eventually get more money in their pockets, and every person is treated equally, thus no one should be complaining about taxes, when everyone is supposed to pay the same amount. The negative side of this, is wealthy people and the middle class, being able to pay those taxes, while the lower class would be unable to pay them. To fix this, the tax rate could be lowered, but this would result in the taxes being extremely low for middle class families and wealthy people, making it almost a joke, as well as massively decreasing the income of tax money for the government.

A balance ...

My answer to this question is the following: I believe that only a balance between both plans will result in the best possible way of taxing citizens. Progressive taxes should be required, as wealthier people still get enough income even after they have paid taxes, thus there is no way for them to become poor or make loses, and it is only beneficial for the government. (The formula calculating the taxes shouldn't be too high either, otherwise more money is leaving the economy than money entering it, thus the buying power would go down.) Here's where the 2nd plan get's a role: There has to be a roof, a kind of limit, on the progressive tax, making sure that after a certain amount of income, the progressive tax no longer is allowed to go up, thus you would maintain a steady amount of taxes to be paying. I suggest the same to be done in the opposite situation; People should only be taxed starting from a specific amount of income, thus preventing the taxation of extremely low incomes, thus also protecting families and individuals who barely earn money from paying taxes.



Political Affiliation: None, as all possible political groups contain aspects I dislike or find bad, in order to run a country and represent a majority of people in a correct way. If you would ask me what my closest political affiliation would be, I would answer: Democratic socialism.


Sexual Orientation: Straight, yet completely respectful to other people's choices and I do not find bisexual or gay people wrong or different in any way, nor do I dislike them. My sexual orientation is based on the sex which I feel attracted to.


Sex: Male


What is God to you? To me, the word 'God' refers to the the event or miracle which made the existence of the universe possible, in my point of view 'God' is not an individual who created the world, nor is it something that can be related to the view of God in religion, it is solely that what scientists call the Big Bang, but with everything before the Big Bang included.


Religion: I am an apatheist as I don't know whether God exists or not, and I don't care either. At first I thought I was agnostic, but now I understand the difference between the two much better.


In one sentence, describe yourself: An open-minded individual who's not afraid to give his opinion regarding a subject, yet totally respectful to others and fights against any form of discrimination.



Sources:

- Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
- Playstation Network by Sony, down due to DDoS and hacking attacks
- Geert Wilders




This is the application I used to enter Logic, and as you're using the exact same application form, I'm using the same application. My points of view have not changed, hence why I'm copying my own answers.
[Image: Pi0HBk0.gif]
(Jan 13, 2013 03:26 AM)Lante Wrote:  -snip-

I have associated with you within the SF and you are indeed Logic and Deductive quality.

Welcome to the unofficial group, Lante.

🎉

I'll give you our Skype Chat shortly.
  • Profile Link: https://hackforums.net/member.php?action...uid=981500

  • Age: 16

  • Questions:

  • Q1 Are there any actions that are inherently right or wrong?/ No, there are not. Actions that may seem immoral or evil to some, such as murder or stealing, are seen as facts of life and necessary for survival to others. Pedophilia was considered normal in very many different societies for a very long time, as was slavery. Most people will base their view of what's right and wrong on their religion, the laws of their country, and how they were raised.

  • Q2 Does true, destined love exist? / No, it does not. People base their idea of love on how well they can get along with a certain individual. There is nobody who is perfect for you waiting to meet you and fall in love with you. People will usually take part in relationships where they enjoy each others company and can deal with each others negative aspects in a positive way. If you were to argue that there is one person who is perfect for everyone, then you would be assuming that everyone roughly has a 1:7,000,000,000 chance of being in a happy relationship with their partner, which I think I can safely say is not the case.

  • Q3 Is homosexuality born-with or gained?/ There is no definite answer to this question. Homosexuality has been seen in many other types of living creatures, which would make someone think that it was purely genetic. However, people have also become homosexual based on how they were raised and in what types of situations they were put in. My opinion is that it differs on a case-by-case basis.

  • Political Affiliation: I'm politically inactive

  • Sexual Orientation: Heterosexual

  • Sex: Male

  • What is God to you? God is the idea that you have no control over what you can do, and that your existence and actions are to appease somebody else.

  • Religion: None

  • In one sentence, describe yourself. "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"


(Jan 13, 2013 04:11 AM)Premortal Wrote:  
  • Profile Link: https://hackforums.net/member.php?action...uid=981500

  • Age: 16

  • Questions:

  • Q1 Are there any actions that are inherently right or wrong?/ No, there are not. Actions that may seem immoral or evil to some, such as murder or stealing, are seen as facts of life and necessary for survival to others. Pedophilia was considered normal in very many different societies for a very long time, as was slavery. Most people will base their view of what's right and wrong on their religion, the laws of their country, and how they were raised.

  • Q2 Does true, destined love exist? / No, it does not. People base their idea of love on how well they can get along with a certain individual. There is nobody who is perfect for you waiting to meet you and fall in love with you. People will usually take part in relationships where they enjoy each others company and can deal with each others negative aspects in a positive way. If you were to argue that there is one person who is perfect for everyone, then you would be assuming that everyone has a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of being in a happy relationship with their partner, which I think I can safely say is not the case.

  • Q3 Is homosexuality born-with or gained?/ There is no definite answer to this question. Homosexuality has been seen in many other types of living creatures, which would make someone think that it was purely genetic. However, people have also become homosexual based on how they were raised and in what types of situations they were put in. My opinion is that it differs on a case-by-case basis.

  • Political Affiliation: I'm politically inactive

  • Sexual Orientation: Heterosexual

  • Sex: Male

  • What is God to you? God is the idea that you have no control over what you can do, and that your existence and actions are to appease somebody else.

  • Religion: None

  • In one sentence, describe yourself. "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"



It's sad to see that not many people have applied..

I'm glad you have though, and I enjoyed reading your application.

Accepted. You have also been added to the Group Chat on Skype.

👍
(Jan 13, 2013 03:27 PM)blessthefall™ Wrote:  Good luck with your recruitment! I'm not so into the SRPP section. I just adore that you're trying to form a group that is gathering members who ACTUALLY love debating.

Best wishes,
-BTF

Thanks, blessthefall™.

Hopefully this group will become more popular within time. I am currently trying to get a user-bar for us as well.


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