[Lufasu]

This thread is a discussion, im not saying / pointing / targeting any game , i just want to know people opinons.

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So , MMORPG , one of the most addicting type of games .
Millions players , around 250+ successful games ... in this thread i want your opinion about a same thing that goes on some games .
The pay2win scene , almost all of the mmorpg games have the option to upgrade your character by fusing your weapon , fusing your set , get more money , the most popular goal is - to be one of the strongest character in your server , or atleast one from the top10 - top20 .
The pay2win scene started to be showed a LOT on the mmorpg games , even in some FPS games (i'll notice) , but lets focus on MMORPG for a sec ..
TERA
Blade And Soul
Silkroad Online
Aion
Archage
MapleStory
Metin
Cabal online
and alot of more , those games has the option to buy an actual physically items from a online store ... example - Sword +10 for price of 50$ .
Or a set , or an addontial pet buff , weapon , all ! for a real money .
Well i'd say its an great money making method also , but lets leave it behind.

Here is some examples from a popular games that people from the mmorpg forums / communities calling them "fully pay2win" -
Gold -

a lot of gold buying you items but this is not the pay2win that i talked about , this is just an example as i said , everyone can get gold by farming items / mobbing.

There is a real example of pay2win game -

Like what the heck ??
And with my experience on this game , this is even not the max weapon + that you can achieve , the max + its 12 and a weapon +12 can be worth atleast 1300$ pref what class are you.
For those who interesting to know what game is it - Silkroad Online



Now lets go to another popular mmorpg PAID game - Guild Wars 2 .
Like its fine you can buy gold , on every game you can buy gold , this is not pay2win atleast.
But buying items that 60% of the players cant get them by themselves because the items are HARD to get and even impossible or you can get them only by paying money and purecash from the online officially game store?

^



About gold -
Most of the people saying that buying gold for a specific game its a fully pay2win , so its not . Gold can be achieved by farming on the game himself , every player making gold by hands , the owner will never sell gold , so buying ingame currency its not a pay2win and not a advantage.


But buying items that a lot of people cant get them and have to pay atleast to get on of the item on the formula to build the specific items , thats pay2win and give you advantage .



Pay2win meaning (taken from Urban Dictionary) -

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!

I would like to hear everyone opinion about that discussion :)


-Brusk

[In‌sane‌]

Well i'd say its an great money making method also , but lets leave it behind.

I don't agree with this, I think any game would be better off and make more money in the long run if it kept away from relying on whales to fund the game, like Archeage for example could have been an absolutely amazing game if done right.

I personally consider a game p2w when you are allowed to buy anything that gives you an advantage directly from the publishers of the game and there is no other way to get this by just playing the game, now I don't mean pay for convenience like xp boosts or extra bag slots even though they are annoying and do ruin the game a bit for me.

I think any decent game should limit themselves to just sell cosmetics and nothing else, the best gear and weapons should only be obtained by earning it and no other way thus also making it an achievement other people can acknowledge.

[Lufasu]

I don't agree with this, I think any game would be better off and make more money in the long run if it kept away from relying on whales to fund the game, like Archeage for example could have been an absolutely amazing game if done right.

I personally consider a game p2w when you are allowed to buy anything that gives you an advantage directly from the publishers of the game and there is no other way to get this by just playing the game, now I don't mean pay for convenience like xp boosts or extra bag slots even though they are annoying and do ruin the game a bit for me.

I think any decent game should limit themselves to just sell cosmetics and nothing else, the best gear and weapons should only be obtained by earning it and no other way thus also making it an achievement other people can acknowledge.

I think any decent game should limit themselves to just sell cosmetics and nothing else,

I like you.
And about your reply about the money making method.
Sadly thats what people doing sometimes.. farming / botting ingame currency , and sell them for the gold sellers websites to make money off the game.
Like on maplestory , you pay 200$ to get 20Million damage and then you can easily clear bosses that dropping you items that worth 500m-1b .
and 1b on maplestory = 3$ , so make your calculates..
Its happening alot in almost any game.

best gear and weapons should only be obtained by earning it and no other way thus also making it an achievement other people can acknowledge.

If the developers want this situation to stop (that websites selling physical items for real money that will make your character so strong) , they should make the popular items that people upgrading - untradeable's items.
Thats why nexon come's out with their new idea of making a new server on maplestory 'reboot' , you cant trade there , so buying gold / items for real money are fully disabled by them.

[In‌sane‌]

I like you.
And about your reply about the money making method.
Sadly thats what people doing sometimes.. farming / botting ingame currency , and sell them for the gold sellers websites to make money off the game.
Like on maplestory , you pay 200$ to get 20Million damage and then you can easily clear bosses that dropping you items that worth 500m-1b .
and 1b on maplestory = 3$ , so make your calculates..
Its happening alot in almost any game.

If the developers want this situation to stop (that websites selling physical items for real money that will make your character so strong) , they should make the popular items that people upgrading - untradeable's items.
Thats why nexon come's out with their new idea of making a new server on maplestory 'reboot' , you cant trade there , so buying gold / items for real money are fully disabled by them.

It's a damn shame we came to this point honestly, especially when it ruins game that has huge potential.

I do love the idea of a reboot server though, would honestly give Maplestory another go if they release something like that, haven't played the game since like 2008 or something I believe.

Appreciate the thread, always interesting to see what other people consider p2w, have heard some really absurd opinions from my apb days and it's definitely worth talking about.

[Lufasu]

It's a damn shame we came to this point honestly, especially when it ruins game that has huge potential.

I do love the idea of a reboot server though, would honestly give Maplestory another go if they release something like that, haven't played the game since like 2008 or something I believe.

Appreciate the thread, always interesting to see what other people consider p2w, have heard some really absurd opinions from my apb days and it's definitely worth talking about.

Thank you very much :)
Well , if i was one of the game developers and my game was have an actual servers list , i would go for the maplestory 'reboot' idea , making a NEW brand server with an option to transfer somethings from the other servers (ofc not the pay2win items) and start a new way to play , without any rich guy that will spend alot of his money and buy gold / items and be the stronger.
Also , in some games , its not about the pay2win , its about the skill also .
I hope to see games starting to do some good steps to win this pay2win.
Was nice to talk with you budd

[Kaleb]

I just built my PC a few weeks ago and was looking for a decent MMO to play and literally cannot find one. All of them that I did find had steam reviews shitting on them for being P2W. I guess your best bet would be to find a decent MMO and just invest in a subscription.

[Lufasu]

I just built my PC a few weeks ago and was looking for a decent MMO to play and literally cannot find one. All of them that I did find had steam reviews shitting on them for being P2W. I guess your best bet would be to find a decent MMO and just invest in a subscription.

You can check my thread here :)
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5399279

[Freddy Kruеger]

You can't buy gold or legendaries in GW2, doing so from a third party will result in you getting banned. (If you get caught that is)

[Lufasu]

You can't buy gold or legendaries in GW2, doing so from a third party will result in you getting banned. (If you get caught that is)

Legends -


Gold -


Its against their rules , but the chance to get caught very low.

[The-Noob]

Many FPS games that are F2p are spoiled by this type of method. Paying for weapons and stuff to get an advantage is pretty shit tbh!

I really don't like it when you can buy "packs" like an Assault pack and unlock all weapons rather than unlock them by playing. Whats the point in playing a game if you are just going to pay your way to the good stuff..

[Chief Sosa]

About Silkroad Online - Back in the day when i played it wasn't pay2win. Actually even now i think its not pay2win. You can't buy +10 weps from the silk store i think.
About buying +10 weapons from thirs party websites - the dev doesn't earn money from it. It does give you advantage if you have +10 wep and the other have +7 but everybody can make a good weapon in Silkroad if he knows how to use the alchemy system and if he is lucky.

I left Silkroad not because it became pay to win as it did not but because the game changed a lot and not in a good way. I miss the old 80-90lvl cap days.

Also +7 isn't that hard to make and the item in the website is overpriced af.

[Lufasu]

About Silkroad Online - Back in the day when i played it wasn't pay2win. Actually even now i think its not pay2win. You can't buy +10 weps from the silk store i think.
About buying +10 weapons from thirs party websites - the dev doesn't earn money from it. It does give you advantage if you have +10 wep and the other have +7 but everybody can make a good weapon in Silkroad if he knows how to use the alchemy system and if he is lucky.

I left Silkroad not because it became pay to win as it did not but because the game changed a lot and not in a good way. I miss the old 80-90lvl cap days.

Also +7 isn't that hard to make and the item in the website is overpriced af.

false.
You cannot buy weapon from the company , only from the sites that selling them .
Silkroad is fully pay2win , i cant see you get 200billion for a weapon and half set so fast.

[Chief Sosa]

false.
You cannot buy weapon from the company , only from the sites that selling them .
Silkroad is fully pay2win , i cant see you get 200billion for a weapon and half set so fast.

You cannot buy weapon from the company , only from the sites that selling them . - I know, thats what i said.

For how long have you been playing Silkroad? Its pretty easy to earn money in Silkroad, especially the hard core players or the big guilds which own the fortresses.
Back when i was playing iSro (minimum 6-7 years ago) there were people with more than 500b gold in my guild and union. 200b are nothing for players like them. If you know how its not hard to make gold. The job system was pretty dope and also lets not forget the botting - the hardcore players i am talking about had full party of bots botting 24/7.
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/KerLing.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/Trien_Chieu.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/ImaOG.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Chronos/Blue__Sky.html


Until you get to 120-130lvl, dunno what the max lvl is atm, you will know how to make a nice set by yourself. Unless you dumb - then you will give 200b for them.

Also you can buy everything with gold - there are people selling silk items for gold as well.

http://www.rev6.com/bestset/ Check this website out. Dunno about the new d14 items but there is somebody with 98lvl staff +20.

[Lufasu]

You cannot buy weapon from the company , only from the sites that selling them . - I know, thats what i said.

For how long have you been playing Silkroad? Its pretty easy to earn money in Silkroad, especially the hard core players or the big guilds which own the fortresses.
Back when i was playing iSro (minimum 6-7 years ago) there were people with more than 500b gold in my guild and union. 200b are nothing for players like them. If you know how its not hard to make gold. The job system was pretty dope and also lets not forget the botting - the hardcore players i am talking about had full party of bots botting 24/7.
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/KerLing.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/Trien_Chieu.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Themis/ImaOG.html
http://www.rev6.com/player/Chronos/Blue__Sky.html


Also until you get to 120-130lvl, dunno what the max lvl is atm, you will know how to make a nice set by yourself. Unless you dumb - then you will give 200b for them.

Also you can buy everything with gold - there are people selling silk items for gold as well.

http://www.rev6.com/bestset/ Check this website out. Dunno about the new d14 items but there is somebody with 98lvl staff +20.

6years in total .
2years on private servers .
You cannot make a good set by yourself without buying a 'Proofs' that cost real money and without a proof , expect your item to disappear
also my guild take fortress and was one of the strongest ones -

[Chad ThunderCock]

if you're buying stuff from 3rd party sites then it's not pay to win. There's no game where you can't buy stuff from sites because players always want to sell these things.

Also in GW2 those legendaries you listed hardly give you any advantage, you'd know if you played the game.