[Hackers]

I have noticed a trend (throughout the many years of posting online) of people being overly critical towards others.

For example, a user posted a thread where they start off with "this is not going to be fully undetected". One user's reply? Criticism that it doesn't bypass windows defender.
Another example would be me sharing C++ code as I learn C++ for the first time over the last few months.
One user? Making sure to tell me how terrible my code is.

Nightingale made a thread - the same user that came for me? You guessed it - criticized his code too and in my opinion he did that rudely.

Now, this is not to say that criticism has no place. It's always good to help people grow as a coder, point out flaws, help with bugs, etc.
But there is a fine line between "we're a community helping each other" and "I am toxic and your code is shit" that I feel gets crossed sometimes, and this is not exclusive to HF. This happens in workplaces between professionals, social media, github comments, and everywhere else too.

What do you think of this type of thing, and do you feel that some people are rude in an effort to be "right" or critical of code?
I personally feel that you can be as strict as you want with reviews, for example not letting a single flaw go unnoticed - but it can be done in a kind way, or a professional way, or ultimately: a helpful way. When this isn't considered & it's "just strict' or "just harsh" with no effort to even be socially aware, it can end up coming across as a toxic dev ego, and ultimately: unhelpful.

[Absence]

I am not particularly active in coding topics, but there definitely is a fine line between constructive criticism and being militant towards other people. For some reason, I have noticed that there are a few people who seem to have an elitist attitude towards others and their work, even when they don't meet that same degree of scrutiny.

Although I do not particularly know the thread you are referencing, I will soon, I do know that I enjoy my discussions with Nightingale himself. I also know that there are quite a few people who would happily work with him again and again.

That is kinda one of the issues with being online. Some people really love the idea that there is not as many consequences for the things they say.

I do know that today I didn't have to ridicule or degrade anybody to get my point across, or feel better about myself. Never know why people are distasteful, likely is something going on more with them than yourself.

Hackers stay awesome

[Hackers]

I am not particularly active in coding topics, but there definitely is a fine line between constructive criticism and being militant towards other people. For some reason, I have noticed that there are a few people who seem to have an elitist attitude towards others and their work, even when they don't meet that same degree of scrutiny.

Although I do not particularly know the thread you are referencing, I will soon, I do know that I enjoy my discussions with Nightingale himself. I also know that there are quite a few people who would happily work with him again and again.

That is kinda one of the issues with being online. Some people really love the idea that there is not as many consequences for the things they say.

I do know that today I didn't have to ridicule or degrade anybody to get my point across, or feel better about myself. Never know why people are distasteful, likely is something going on more with them than yourself.

Hackers stay awesome

I think the other thing is when people go into a thread with different expectations.

For example, if I share a POC - 9 times out of 10 it means "I just figured this out, I am not cleaning up my code, not optimizing my code". If I share more of a full release, I probably have gone through it a bit more. The problem is if someone comes into a POC codebase of mine expecting it to be 100% optimal. If they are critiquing it with a perspective that it should be perfect, of course they'll have an issue. But if my intent is not to share the cleanest code and is instead to just share something cool, it can be annoying if someone is caught up in those details.

Of course, everyone should always share "clean code" - but I'll mention this: Sometimes when I rush through a thread to share some code, if it doesn't get shared right then and there, I'll never share it. Why? because I explore concepts in code a lot, and if I "achieve something" (example: enabled/disabled AV via COM & WMI in Python thread of mine), I may never look at that code ever again.

The other angle is when someone actually DID try to optimize their code, and tried their best - and then gets criticized and told to never code again (or similar).
This can be discouraging to them big time, derail their motivation, and is probably the worst time to be overly-critical.

all in all, I know I can be better about being nice 100% of the time too and I can be harsh sometimes too. I think we can be better as a community both on HF and off HF, to help people grow more than we pick them apart.

[newQuery]

In the realm of interpersonal dynamics, when an individual exhibits toxic behavior devoid of constructive resolutions, it suggests a deficit in both emotional intelligence and problem-solving acumen. In this scenario, one could posit that said individual, colloquially speaking, may lack the cognitive faculties requisite for navigating such situations adeptly, thereby rendering them less proficient in knowledge acquisition than oneself.

[Hackers]

In the realm of interpersonal dynamics, when an individual exhibits toxic behavior devoid of constructive resolutions, it suggests a deficit in both emotional intelligence and problem-solving acumen. In this scenario, one could posit that said individual, colloquially speaking, may lack the cognitive faculties requisite for navigating such situations adeptly, thereby rendering them less proficient in knowledge acquisition than oneself.

This is true, and there is something to be said that it takes two people to come to a constructive resolution. If either party does lack an emotional intelligence, or critical thinking skills, or other similar qualities, it can be very difficult to move forward. I think my issue with it though overall is more about how the knowledge, advice, critique, or comments are made - and their tone - more so than the actual information itself. It's always best to have code specific bugs, recommendations, improvements, and alternatives shared. If we can all work on how that's communicated over text, especially without any ability to hear the actual tone of the person saying it, we can be more productive. Sometimes I'll dislike a person because of their attitude, while simultaneously seeing how they are correct about certain things. Mix this with every other communication issue that can arise over the internet & it's easy to be derailed from the true reason we should all be here - make friends, learn from others or teach, make more money, write better code, be better people, etc.

[ttbr0]

I have noticed a trend (throughout the many years of posting online) of people being overly critical towards others.

For example, a user posted a thread where they start off with "this is not going to be fully undetected". One user's reply? Criticism that it doesn't bypass windows defender.
Another example would be me sharing C++ code as I learn C++ for the first time over the last few months.
One user? Making sure to tell me how terrible my code is.

Nightingale made a thread - the same user that came for me? You guessed it - criticized his code too and in my opinion he did that rudely.

Now, this is not to say that criticism has no place. It's always good to help people grow as a coder, point out flaws, help with bugs, etc.
But there is a fine line between "we're a community helping each other" and "I am toxic and your code is shit" that I feel gets crossed sometimes, and this is not exclusive to HF. This happens in workplaces between professionals, social media, github comments, and everywhere else too.

What do you think of this type of thing, and do you feel that some people are rude in an effort to be "right" or critical of code?
I personally feel that you can be as strict as you want with reviews, for example not letting a single flaw go unnoticed - but it can be done in a kind way, or a professional way, or ultimately: a helpful way. When this isn't considered & it's "just strict' or "just harsh" with no effort to even be socially aware, it can end up coming across as a toxic dev ego, and ultimately: unhelpful.

ive been trying my best to avoid all of that drama because i dont believe it will lead to any meaningful discussion and i would prefer to not fuel the fire. personally all of the back and forth degrades the experience of the thread filling it with useless posts. those posts specifically trashing on op is unwarranted and could make others reluctant to share their own code in fear of the same thing happening to them. the code released most likely isnt production code and nobody asked for a code review so it should just stop in my opinion. i dont think there are any positive outcomes that are worth the tradeoff for the negative impact.

[Ramsey]

Yeah I agree with that. Code reviews should be more helpful than anything. Don't understand why some developers behave like this. You see it a lot on S/O.

[Dirty]

people especially in general, software engineers have very little social skills and this is just one of it's many symptons together with constantly trying to proof that they are better than everyone else.

[COCKBOT]

There's a number of reasons.

- Feeling superior
- Genuinely trying to help
- Being a dick
etc

The problem is deniability. One can hide behind "Genuinely trying to help" no matter the actual reasoning.

Ideally, if someone is to critique, they should be very matter of fact.

[Euaggelistes]

I have noticed a trend (throughout the many years of posting online) of people being overly critical towards others.

For example, a user posted a thread where they start off with "this is not going to be fully undetected". One user's reply? Criticism that it doesn't bypass windows defender.
Another example would be me sharing C++ code as I learn C++ for the first time over the last few months.
One user? Making sure to tell me how terrible my code is.

Nightingale made a thread - the same user that came for me? You guessed it - criticized his code too and in my opinion he did that rudely.

Now, this is not to say that criticism has no place. It's always good to help people grow as a coder, point out flaws, help with bugs, etc.
But there is a fine line between "we're a community helping each other" and "I am toxic and your code is shit" that I feel gets crossed sometimes, and this is not exclusive to HF. This happens in workplaces between professionals, social media, github comments, and everywhere else too.

What do you think of this type of thing, and do you feel that some people are rude in an effort to be "right" or critical of code?
I personally feel that you can be as strict as you want with reviews, for example not letting a single flaw go unnoticed - but it can be done in a kind way, or a professional way, or ultimately: a helpful way. When this isn't considered & it's "just strict' or "just harsh" with no effort to even be socially aware, it can end up coming across as a toxic dev ego, and ultimately: unhelpful.

It's not limited to just coding. People are consistently being critical and negative. I think some is a knock-on effect of others doing it to them, some of it is just sheer badness. An inability to focus on the good, commend, and provide constructive criticism to improve. It's a lot easier to find fault and complain.

[Klonopin]

Being strict in code reviews is acceptable, But it should always be done kindly and thoughtfully. There's a significant difference between pointing out flaws professionally and attacking someone's work 100%.

programmers can be very toxic especially when it comes to their code...

[ilkelistansky]

LOL✌
They're just a bunch of insecure and unfulfilled people.

[happygonutty]

What do you think of this type of thing, and do you feel that some people are rude in an effort to be "right" or critical of code?

I was watching these sort of threads when it all occurred and my almost first friend here in HF community (nucleo_type09) got his account closed because he keep on bad mouthing these so-called troll accounts that were making fun of everyone's code that were posted especially yours OP.

I am 100% sure that they were just messing with you guys since recently, y'all have been posting and debating about code. And you know, everywhere we go there will AND ALWAYS WILL BE someone that doesn't want people like us and they have this ego in them saying "I am better than these idiots" (something like that) so they would make new accounts, collect just a few privilege by posting then all of a sudden mock everyone up.

I find the whole issue very entertaining to be honest as nucleo_type09 (please do not be mad at me if you can see this) is kind of super sensitive about these kinds of trolling and I believe he should've not done this as we are a community and we have rules to follow, he should have just be mature, ignore them completely and just let the staffs take care of everything.

The whole thing doesn't matter to be honest. All in all, we are all just the same, we have different point of views, different perspectives, different styles of coding and so. I just hope everything not to get too personal, and we just ignore these sorts of trolling or these kinds of people. 🙂

Lastly, a community without trolls would be nothing. If there weren't, we won't get our precious bytes we can use for gambling. Lol. 🕵️😎

[MavenGradle]

I'll share what I have on my profile:

Don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to make mistakes, for making mistakes is a great way to learn. If, for some reason, you feel offended by any commentary in the programming section, don't be. None of it is personal in nature, but rather meant to improve upon your skills and knowledge. Not only that, the community deserves the best possible solution to any given problem.

In terms of sharing code: I am personally offended when bad code is presented and feel the need to correct it. Why? Because if something can be improved upon, you should take the opportunity to do so. Don't let a good storm go to waste. It's not even a matter of trolling or trying to offend people or trying to feel superior because at the end of the day everyone makes mistakes. You, me, the president, your dog, your cat, your cow (Copy on Write, anyone?). We all fall, trip, but you are supposed to get back up. Not lie down and give up.

But let's be clear here. Without community feedback and without code reviews and without people pointing out the way for how things could be better, we would never have had FOSS applications. We would never have had Linux. We would never have been where we are today in terms of technological advancement. Knowledge should be shared, including critique and your opinions. Freedom of speech is a gift. During humanity's history, freedom of speech has always been impeded upon, so we should be happy to be living in a time where we can share our opinions, hate the king or president and not get killed for it. I digress. Sharing is good. As long as it is within your applicable laws, you should. But then again that is kind of the FOSS, GNU and open mindset.

But as someone stated above, there's a fine line between being harsh and trying to remain neutral. Sometimes things can get out of hand, even if one tries to be neutral. Not to mention the psychology at play here. Nerds like us tend to tie our entire personality on the things we write, and as such we can get highly offended by someone trying to show us a better way. This is called confirmation bias. You have to be self aware, thick-skinned but also WILLING to learn and improve if you stand any chance of rising above the rank of code-monkey. Not that there's anything wrong with being a code monkey, but if you are gifted with the ability to write beautiful code, why don't you? And I'm not talking about code styles, I'm talking about actually measurable performance improvements or requirement improvements. In any case, this is meant to be inspirational, I don't know how well I did but maybe it will offer you some insight.

[Dirty]

I'll share what I have on my profile:


In terms of sharing code: I am personally offended when bad code is presented and feel the need to correct it. Why? Because if something can be improved upon, you should take the opportunity to do so. Don't let a good storm go to waste. It's not even a matter of trolling or trying to offend people or trying to feel superior because at the end of the day everyone makes mistakes. You, me, the president, your dog, your cat, your cow (Copy on Write, anyone?). We all fall, trip, but you are supposed to get back up. Not lie down and give up.

But let's be clear here. Without community feedback and without code reviews and without people pointing out the way for how things could be better, we would never have had FOSS applications. We would never have had Linux. We would never have been where we are today in terms of technological advancement. Knowledge should be shared, including critique and your opinions. Freedom of speech is a gift. During humanity's history, freedom of speech has always been impeded upon, so we should be happy to be living in a time where we can share our opinions, hate the king or president and not get killed for it. I digress. Sharing is good. As long as it is within your applicable laws, you should. But then again that is kind of the FOSS, GNU and open mindset.

But as someone stated above, there's a fine line between being harsh and trying to remain neutral. Sometimes things can get out of hand, even if one tries to be neutral. Not to mention the psychology at play here. Nerds like us tend to tie our entire personality on the things we write, and as such we can get highly offended by someone trying to show us a better way. This is called confirmation bias. You have to be self aware, thick-skinned but also WILLING to learn and improve if you stand any chance of rising above the rank of code-monkey. Not that there's anything wrong with being a code monkey, but if you are gifted with the ability to write beautiful code, why don't you? And I'm not talking about code styles, I'm talking about actually measurable performance improvements or requirement improvements. In any case, this is meant to be inspirational, I don't know how well I did but maybe it will offer you some insight.

There is however a right way and a toxic unnecessary way of expressing code is bad and how it can be improved upon. Also context of the code matters, if it's PoC code and it does it's purpose I'm not having any feedback since I didn't spend any time myself to get it to a point I even believe in it's actual quality, rather I have been working on something trying to figure something out if it's even feasible and do not have the time or energy (or see any ROI) in improving the code yet then there is no room to learn and any feedback about the code itself is mostly if not toxic also a waste of time from the person giving it.