[Armada]

I honestly have not seen this section so active in quite some time. I suppose this comes with good reason given the changes which has been implemented to the main stream Remote Administrative Tools.

Firstly, The watermarking.
Lets start with the first common element.pretty much every RAT binary in one way or another had an existing watermark already embedded with it. Many however were not directly intentional, so finding and extracting it was not always the easiest process. Luminosity dropped a file on the host machine which had a type of watermark already. So I fail to understand why the news of a more apparent watermark being implemented is new to anyone.

Secondly, EULA/TOS
I know most people tend to just scroll through these without actually reading them, however had anyone actually bothered, you would already know, the software was never designed or intended to malicious uses, and violation of the agreement would have gotten the license banned anyways. Nothing new here either.

Thirdly, Legalities.
This is by far one of the most important points for Remote Administrative developers,owners and operators. As owner to Orcus my portion of the business is the office end or stuff, which includes ensuring legal compliance to all the laws governing the software and business.

Here is where the misconception lies with majority of RAT users. They believe that as a owner of a Remote Admin tool and actively selling and developing the software, so long as I put a Disclaimer and TOS saying I wont be held responsible for misuse, that is the legal end of it. This is so far from the truth people would be surprised.

Example:
I sell user A my Remote Admin product, tell them no malicious use, etc. And I am no longer legally liable for this user and their misuse of their product.
But if it becomes apparent that they are intentionally abusing the software and that I also have knowledge of the matter and take no preventive action to stop the abuse. I am now breaking the law, for failing to prevent the abuse of my software, be it either by banning the license, shutting down servers, or even going as far as reporting illegal use to the appropriate authorities. If I fail to take these actions I am now Aiding and Abetting and possibly an Accomplice to the end users illegal activity.


tl;dr

Spoiler (Click to View)
No RAT Developer is going to willingly go to jail for someone elses stupidity and illegal misuse of the software they developed.

[sisnol]

Word! But they should probably refund new buyers, after they realize they are not ready to go to jail..so they bail.I'm just trying to make common sense.

[Purple Kief]

Example:
I sell user A my Remote Admin product, tell them no malicious use, etc. And I am no longer legally liable for this user and their misuse of their product.
But if it becomes apparent that they are intentionally abusing the software and that I also have knowledge of the matter and take no preventive action to stop the abuse. I am now breaking the law, for failing to prevent the abuse of my software, be it either by banning the license, shutting down servers, or even going as far as reporting illegal use to the appropriate authorities. If I fail to take these actions I am now Aiding and Abetting and possibly an Accomplice to the end users illegal activity.

Get it through your skull people.
Thanks Armada. :)

[m4dh4ck3r]

It is a pretty good move made by RAT owners. They should probably just ban all users asking for refund because they can't use for "malicious" use.

[dukesman24]

Armada is simply saying the same thing, that we all have been hearing since 2days after all these drama here. Guys lets count our teeth using our tongue. Both rat developers,owners and users knows what its been used for and they know too well that it will Always be misused (see it like in the scenario of giving a rat fish to keep); Guys move ON, those into biz., Find other toolZ and do your thing; and the RAT Owners, i wish u guys the best with your sales... PEACE I'M OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hfaccount78894714312]

Honestly last person to not watermark on here was Shockwave lol

[Ainaj]

Honestly last person to not watermark on here was Shockwave lol

Technically every rat has some form of water mark, the connection host, aka your IP address.

[creki]

Technically every rat has some form of water mark, the connection host, aka your IP address.

Thus use of a VPN or something similar

[Ainaj]

Thus use of a VPN or something similar

But rat owners can still track that ip back to you via the licencing system, and ban you if needed. Adding in that extra watermark really doesn't change much.

[Dostoevsky]

But if it becomes apparent that they are intentionally abusing the software and that I also have knowledge of the matter and take no preventive action to stop the abuse. I am now breaking the law, for failing to prevent the abuse of my software, be it either by banning the license, shutting down servers, or even going as far as reporting illegal use to the appropriate authorities. If I fail to take these actions I am now Aiding and Abetting and possibly an Accomplice to the end users illegal activity.

I'm sure you've went to great efforts to ensure your product isn't enabling skid hax0rz. Oh wait, you sell it on HF. You're a deluded moron as my threads have already highlighted. Stop legitimising your cancer; maybe you can spool this bullshit to your next/current employer and see if they show the same grace as the one that fired you for operating an (essentially) illegally-motivated service.

[creki]

But rat owners can still track that ip back to your client via the licencing system, and ban you if needed. Adding in that extra watermark really doesn't change much.

It is/was against the ratted user, not the rat owner :p

[Dagurmeyo]

If you can't assume doing directly or indirectly cyber crime then don't do it at all, stop being pussies you little skids
what's the issue with paying the $10 fee to Omniscient to hide your personal IP Address to HackForums?
pfff

[Paulin23]

In other words: you and the other Devs need to get the youknowwhat off ->HACK<- forums and start doing traditional advertising for your software because your software at this point is not even useful to pentesters.

Going even further, nothing you said here explains why devs kept money from people who paid within 48 hrs of the DRASTIC change. Furthermore there was no warning.

You can sit up there and tell the community "everything's going to be okay" but that doesn't change a damn thing.

There is a new paradigm on Hackforums. There are two categories of RATs: Watermarked and Non-watermarked

That being said: I call for an immediate motion to require all devs who implement watermarking functions on their RATs to edit their sales thread and disclose that their software has it and explaining what it means. The current ToS on affected RATs do NOT cover this. This disclosure should be in plain sight and not hidden. Each seller should explicitly designate their RAT as Watermarked (W) or Non-Watermarked(W).


Failure to disclose Watermarking functions should lead to loss of stickying priveledges in the RAT section of HF.

You guys are free to change your software however you like: but transparency is important going forward so as not to mislead people as was done recently.


If anyone agrees with this stance, please voice your support. Let's make this a thing and move past this so consumers can make the right choice and devs can continue developing their products.

[hfaccount78894714312]

But rat owners can still track that ip back to you via the licencing system, and ban you if needed. Adding in that extra watermark really doesn't change much.

Many user's here probably share the same ip' fro mthe same servers because using same VPN server ......... so no LOL

[Dagurmeyo]

I'd like to see you rat 'coders' be raided and jailed just for the sake of all your personal informations being in the HackForums order database lollllll