[Omniscient]

I keep reading headlines that Ethereum merge is complete and that now it consumes 7000 times less energy than Bitcoin.

Articles at Coindesk like this are what I'm talking about.

https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/09/...ion-by-02/

So basically ETH merge reduces worldwide energy consumption by possibly as much as .2%. A quick lookup of Bitcoin and you'll see that before the merge BTC was using about 25% of what BTC mining uses. So it's possible the Bitcoin mining is using nearly 1% of all global energy consumption.

IMHO where this gets interesting is the real push to punish Bitcoin because of this power consumption. And while in the past I've heard the arguments made against Bitcoin because of energy usage, not until Ethereum moved to PoW was there really this level of attack against Bitcoin.

So I've done some digging. Because I don't recall anyone in the Ethereum camp really pushing for PoS as a means of lowering energy consumption.

Here is a paper that Vitalik originally released about why ETH is making the change.

https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/11/06/pos2020.html

None of it is related to any climate agenda to conserve power consumption. The narrative is false. It's being used the Left and Propagandists to attack Bitcoin. A true decentralized network imho. I am not convinced that the change to PoW for Ethereum is a positive one for decentralization.

On Twitter some pundit commented about how it's better for the planet to move Ethereum to PoS and to get rid of Bitcoin. I absolutely do not agree. There is no evidence we'll save the planet if we just use 1% less electricity. Ever wonder where all the electricity goes?

First is #1 consumer is China and by far.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/2670...worldwide/

Is everyone going to reduce their AC units to 82 instead of 75? That would save at least 1% right there. AC units use 10% of all global electricity. That's all just to stay "comfortable".

All these headlines applauding Ethereum and attacking Bitcoin using Climate Change and Energy Consumption as arguments are stupid.

[Maskin]

It’s just a narrative that people who are biased started using, which is stupid because if BTC does well then so will ETH. In the macro perspective we are all on the same team.

It feels like electricity and power consumption was barely spoken about pre 2019/2020 as electric cars became more main stream, all of the sudden electricity and power consumption is a huge issue.
Perhaps I just didn’t pay attention to it before?
Or maybe the oil kings realized something in the last couple of years.

[Omniscient]

It’s just a narrative that people who are biased started using, which is stupid because if BTC does well then so will ETH. In the macro perspective we are all on the same team.

It feels like electricity and power consumption was barely spoken about pre 2019/2020 as electric cars became more main stream, all of the sudden electricity and power consumption is a huge issue.
Perhaps I just didn’t pay attention to it before?
Or maybe the oil kings realized something in the last couple of years.

What happened in 2020? Oh that's right...Biden.

So basically the climate change people are in-charge. Their agenda is simple. Control us by using climate change as an excuse. So when I read that Ethereum is awesome and Bitcoin sucks because of Climate Change, my "don't trust it" radar goes off.

So far, not happy with the ETH merge into PoW. And the market seems to be agreeing.

Ethereum

Sep 21, 2022 04:55 PM:$1,251.47

Now:$2,450.3

Change:95.79%

View Chart

[SIM-1169085]

If the Ethereum people push against Bitcoin then I'd just forget about Ethereum.

Vitalik can't come out in a major way against Bitcoin or say anything that would be seen as an attack or else the current ecosystem would destroy him and go against Ethereum.

Who knows what his true opinions are, this is actually just like politics imo. Don't be surprised if he flip flops like a fish and one day pushes against Bitcoin.

Honestly, that's what I sense it's going to come to one day. That's why I'm just dropping Ethereum completely. I'm biting them in the ass. I won't let them take the value of my money away.

[Omniscient]

If the Ethereum people push against Bitcoin then I'd just forget about Ethereum.

Vitalik can't come out in a major way against Bitcoin or say anything that would be seen as an attack or else the current ecosystem would destroy him and go against Ethereum.

Who knows what his true opinions are, this is actually just like politics imo. Don't be surprised if he flip flops like a fish and one day pushes against Bitcoin.

Honestly, that's what I sense it's going to come to one day. That's why I'm just dropping Ethereum completely.

If he speaks one word against Bitcoin's power consumption, I'm basically done with ETH. I would consider him a shill and the Ethereum project compromised. That's IF it happens...

[shreder]

There is nothing political about it. The lower energy consumption is derived from the fact that validators can run off consumer hardware and is merely a by-product of that.

If you read all the research papers you will realize the goal of developers and the community was to allow for as many validators to run off the lowest requirement of consumer-grade hardware. Not to save energy despite that being an inadvertent plus.

[Omniscient]

There is nothing political about it. The lower energy consumption is derived from the fact that validators can run off consumer hardware and is merely a by-product of that.

If you read all the research papers you will realize the goal of developers and the community was to allow for as many validators to run off the lowest requirement of consumer-grade hardware. Not to save energy despite that being an inadvertent plus.

In the MSM it's being politicized. That's my point, which apparently you didn't get.

[shreder]

In the MSM it's being politicized.  That's my point, which apparently you didn't get.

I get it is being politicized then again what's not? Have you not seen people cry about the black little mermaid? The media is shit and will hop on anything that gets them views. This sounds like a media issue.

What you thought the media explaining how PoS 12-second block time would improve UX would get more clicks?

[Omniscient]

I get it is being politicized then again what's not? Have you not seen people cry about the black little mermaid? The media is shit and will hop on anything that gets them views. This sounds like a media issue.

What you thought the media explaining how PoS 12-second block time would improve UX would get more clicks?

And so you're not worried that Ethereum is being used in part of an agenda? Sorry but your example of Disney is against you because Disney absolutely has an agenda.

What is Ethereum's agenda?

[PoLoW]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/musk-tes...nergy.html

Ethereum was decentralized when it was PoW, bitcoin is still decentralized.

PoS comes with a price, yep centralization soon.

[shreder]

And so you're not worried that Ethereum is being used in part of an agenda?  Sorry but your example of Disney is against you because Disney absolutely has an agenda.

What is Ethereum's agenda?

What do you want me to do, censor them? Let's say the role is reversed. BTC went PoS, and ETH stayed PoW. What would you do if the media started doing the same? Dump your BTC? Obviously not you just ignore them.

My example with Disney is merely talking about the media picking up things to gain clicks, not about the underlying agenda. I don't follow it don't really care just popped on my feed.

---

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/musk-tes...nergy.html

Ethereum was decentralized when it was PoW, bitcoin is still decentralized.

PoS comes with a price, yep centralization soon.

At first merge was never going to happen, now "yep centralization soon."

If your biggest competition was shooting themselves in the foot. Would you stop them or let them do it and watch quietly? PoS is more secure... it is more decentralized... it is scaling... and it is scaring you

[Omniscient]

What do you want me to do, censor them? Let's say the role is reversed. BTC went PoS, and ETH stayed PoW. What would you do if the media started doing the same? Dump your BTC? Obviously not you just ignore them.

I have decent ETH holdings I accrued when PoS was announced and I've held hoping to start a node. I'm selling off. It's not just the price either. It's more about not trusting the future of Ethereum as a decentralized platform.

I don't follow it don't really care just popped on my feed.

But I do follow crypto and I do care. And message, direction, and leadership are important.

At first merge was never going to happen, now "yep centralization soon."

I wasn't one of those who said that. I been actually rooting for ETH to go PoS. But here we are. They did it. And imho it's looking like a huge failure. Maybe it's too early to tell that or maybe I'm smart enough to get the fuck out fast.

If your biggest competition was shooting themselves in the foot. Would you stop them or let them do it and watch quietly? PoS is more secure... it is more decentralized... it is scaling... and it is scaring you

Sometimes you're an idiot. I ain't againt Ethereum. Or at least I haven't been. I've been on the fence the past 6 months about its future waiting for PoW merge like everyone else. What exactly do I have to be scared about? I don't give a fuck if it's Ethereum, Bitcoin or Doge....so long as it's decentralized, unregulated, and represents the freedom I expect from a crypto currency. I'm not liking at all some of the articles surrounding the merge. Realize that these power consumption articles are all pro-Ethereum. When you have MSM pushing a message, I question it. When I watch videos of the merge criticisms, they make a lot of sense to me why it's a bad thing. I think the market is reacting to that. The realization that maybe, just maybe, ETH PoS ain't gonna be all that cool.

[Marvelous]

I am a ETH Maxi with some other L1 PoS coins in my portfolio.

I could give 2 shits about the environment.

When the government starts pushing a narrative that something uses too much energy then it doesn’t even matter what anyone has to say. ETH moving to PoS really smacked BTC in the face and said “see ya”. Now BTC has always been on the governments hitlist and the #1 way they can take it down is because of energy consumption. I honestly think that people STRONGLY UNDERESTIMATE how powerful the FED really is..………………………………, and ………………………….

I am a ETH maxi and I hate the banking system and the FED. BTC will not survive LONG TERM. BTC is AOL it did a lot for the web, but it is gone. Yahoo was great, but it is gone.. or close enough. ETH might not even be “it” but there will be a chain that offers freedom from a FIXED system.. and that is where I invest.

[Omniscient]

Now BTC has always been on the governments hitlist and the #1 way they can take it down is because of energy consumption. I honestly think that people STRONGLY UNDERESTIMATE how powerful the FED really is..………………………………, and ………………………….

I strongly disagree that the gov can take out Bitcoin. Not even sure they want to do it. There could be elements within our own gov that recognize that US dollar is failing. If it fails then does the Chinese Yuen or the Euro take over as global currency reserve? Or does everyone play nice and agree that Bitcoin (something truly decentralized) actually might be for the greater good. These ass clowns all talk together at the UN and G12 about working globally, well Bitcoin can actually fit that agenda by being the Global Reserve Currency it is meant to be. I have to believe some people in government are smart enough to realize that.

What's funnny about your argument Marvelous is that you seem to say the government can shut down Bitcoin over their inability to control the energy. Does this mean you believe the government can control Ethereum?

BTC is AOL it did a lot for the web, but it is gone.

Actually, Bitcoin is Email. Do you still use email?

[Marvelous]

I strongly disagree that the gov can take out Bitcoin. Not even sure they want to do it.  There could be elements within our own gov that recognize that US dollar is failing.  If it fails then does the Chinese Yuen or the Euro take over as global currency reserve? Or does everyone play nice and agree that Bitcoin (something truly decentralized) actually might be for the greater good. These ass clowns all talk together at the UN and G12 about working globally, well Bitcoin can actually fit that agenda by being the Global Reserve Currency it is meant to be.  I have to believe some people in government are smart enough to realize that.

What's funnny about your argument Marvelous is that you seem to say the government can shut down Bitcoin over their inability to control the energy.  Does this mean you believe the government can control Ethereum?


Actually, Bitcoin is Email.  Do you still use email?

I never said that one government can shut down BTC, and I can guarantee that BTC will always be here.. BUT, the USA has a ridiculous amount of influence over the rest of the world and what we say(gov says) goes.. if you honestly think that the FED is just going to roll over and say ok we give up on price manipulation with trading, and we give up money printing forever.. you are mistaken. The FED is not the gov., but they run the world.

Both cryptos are under fire right now due to decentralization.. BTC because of power AND miner pool centralization, and ETH because of validator centralization. One can be fixed over time, and the other will get worse over time.

I do use email, but I use Gmail(ETH).. not AOL.