[Roytoy]

I just sent $100 to someone but to my surprised it came along a high $14 fee. What sucks is that I sold my BTC for 5% Paypal so I only got $105 in Paypal funds in return.

I'm not an expert in Bitcoin as I just use it as a Paypal alternative, so I'm asking those knowledgeable, what is the future of BTC fees?
We know it increases with the increase in total transactions, and possibly with more demand? Will it keep increasing with time?

I feel like this disincentives people from using Bitcoin and discourages me to prefer it over doing a Paypal transaction in the future.

[SIM-353284]

My fees were too high recently wouldn’t let me send. 35€ fees on a 47€ Transaction
By the way I’m on coinbase, but I just upgraded to pro which is nice.
Good luck with it!

[xVulnerable]

It's a huge problem for commercial use. I'm not paying more than a dollar fee for an average transaction. Why should I wait 1-4 days to get a confirm? Sometimes it won't even let you send it at all because the fee is too low lmao. I guess our current alternative is to use alt coins.

[trashy]

The future of Bitcoin fees is to avoid them using the lightning network.  My Bitcoin transactions always pay about $.01 in fees:

are lightning wallets or segwit addresses in hard wallets (like trezor to long term storage) less safe? or it is just me doing conspiracies

[Roytoy]

The future of Bitcoin fees is to avoid them using the lightning network.  My Bitcoin transactions always pay about $.01 in fees:

I just read about this on Wiki and it looks promising, though I can't imagine it being the future with it's current limitations, at least not in it's current form.

It's a huge problem for commercial use. I'm not paying more than a dollar fee for an average transaction. Why should I wait 1-4 days to get a confirm? Sometimes it won't even let you send it at all because the fee is too low lmao. I guess our current alternative is to use alt coins.

There has to be a long term solution to this!

[Omniscient]

Lightning is not the answer. It's overly complex to use and a security risk. I have yet to make one successful transaction through the LN. I can't figure it out. I have to find a "node" and then setup a "channel". Well WTF?

Electrum wallet trying to open a channel....

WARNINGS:

Lightning support in Electrum is experimental. Do not put large amounts in lightning channels.

Funds stored in lightning channels are not recoverable from your seed. You must backup your wallet file everytime you create a new channel.

I say "YES" and then it's asking me for a Remote Node ID.

The complexity is killing me.

As for Roytoy question about future of fees. It's going to stabilize by the time BTC is $1m USD.

[trashy]

Lightning wallets are always connected to the Internet, which means they are less secure than an offline hardware wallet like Trezor, Coldcard, Ledger, etc.

So, when my trezor arrives, the safest way is a legacy address too? or thats diferent?

[xVulnerable]

As for Roytoy question about future of fees.  It's going to stabilize by the time BTC is $1m USD.

Not sure if you’re being serious lol. To reach 1M price is possible but for the fees to stabilize, not sure. 😓

[๖ۣۜÑåzgйŀ]

For an easy lightning experience, newbies should just download a light wallet like Phoenix by ACINQ on Android, and open a single channel of ~$200  to ACINQ's node (or any of the other top 10 ranked by liquidity/reach on 1ml.com's leaderboard). 

I just tried using lightning network with Bitfinex and phoenix wallet
it did work and I received what I wanted but it was a massive pain getting it lol (mostly because of bitfinex)
and now I want to send it to electrum wallet but I need to like deposit some before I can even open a channel?

there's just no way that's gonna work in the long run for me
the easiest way to save on fees with bitcoin is to just use binance chain and send my BTC there

[Omniscient]

Not sure if you’re being serious lol. To reach 1M price is possible but for the fees to stabilize, not sure

Currently trading is very high. Once it's $1m USD there will be less transactions because it will be too expensive. No one is going to send me $20 BTC payments anymore. They'll use something else. Most will be holding their Bitcoin. I am willing to bet that the actual transaction volume per day will be much lower than now.

I just tried using lightning network with Bitfinex and phoenix wallet
it did work and I received what I wanted but it was a massive pain getting it lol (mostly because of bitfinex)
and now I want to send it to electrum wallet but I need to like deposit some before I can even open a channel?

there's just no way that's gonna work in the long run for me
the easiest way to save on fees with bitcoin is to just use binance chain and send my BTC there

I know I know....I just tried to send from one LN Electrum wallet to another wallet but it's not Native Segwit so it doesn't seem to support LN. I think (not 100%) that you have to fund a channel in a node by sending BTC. Once it's there you can then move it again. I'm just not sure if that's any cheaper because I have to send to the channel and then back out. LN from my understanding is only effective if you're doing a ton of internal transactions and leaving the funds in the Node.

Drives me crazy that LN was touted as revolutionary for lower fees and it's an extra layer of complexity I have yet to figure out. Not that I've spent any dedicated time to do so but when I try to do a quickie I get sucked into a rabbit hole of "WTF".


I want to note that let's say BTC is $1m USD. Even at 1 sat/b fee a transaction might cost $100. So no one is going to be sending BTC for small payments. That will just end.

[๖ۣۜÑåzgйŀ]

What did Bitfinex do to cause issues?  I haven't used them since 2017 when they were threatening to KYC my prohibited jurisdiction account.


You don't gain any effectiveness from using lightning if you don't reuse your channels, so opening a second channel to yourself is not really a good place to allocate lightning liquidity. 

A lightning rookie mistake is to pay a bunch of on chain fees opening channels you won't use, just to have to pay more on chain fees close them again because you don't have a route to spend them or simple way to rebalance.  So the simplest solution to avoid liquidity constraints or sync issues is just a to use a light wallet on mobile with one channel that has giant reach.  I haven't tried Electrum's implementation of lightning yet, but since it looks like there's multiple curious people getting frustrated with it, I'll try to give it a test drive this weekend.


Never used Binance before, seeing a lot of hype around it.  I have an eerie feeling that it's going to lead to a lot of "my funds got locked by Binance!" threads posted later on.

Man I'm glad you're on the forum to help us out with some of the more complicated features, I didn't realize that I could use the same channel

Bitfinex was just an annoying exchange to use, they would require you to send your funds from the exchange wallet to the exchange trading site, then once I got my BTC I had to send it back to the exchange wallet and then I had to transfer BTC to LNX (LNX was the lightning network for bitcoin)
then I had to send them an invoice from the app that you suggested in order for them to send it to my personal wallet
all of the above took me a bit of time to figure out because they didn't really clarify how to use the website, it made it very frustrating


and as for Binance your funds cannot be locked in the binance chain because it's a decentralized network and I'm using the BinanceDEX not the centralized exchange, (not your keys not your crypto as they say)

https://www.binance.com/en/blog/34736087...ance-Chain
https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/...-chain-bsc

since it's Bitcoin pegged it means what they give you isn't legitimate BTC but another token which has the same value as BTC
if binance was to exit scam I would assume their pegged BTC would be gone as well
they cannot freeze your funds however, and it should be least likely to get stolen since you own your keys
I would not keep a large amount of pegged bitcoins on their binance chain