[crazyycast13]

Well, here goes nothing.

SUMMARY OF THIS POST:
1) Crypter and cryptography threads are so vastly different that they need to have different sections
2) Both topics create enough threads to merit their own sections
3) If a split does happen, create a new subforum labeled "Crypters" to put all crypter related threads and stickies. This should not affect business in any shape or form, and instead should be able to help someone who owns a sticky to find customers faster than before.

---

To start, this has been suggested multiple times in the past. The most recent time Omni commented on the thread, but there was no closure.
Spoiler (Click to View)
TIMELINE OF SUGGESTIONS FROM RECENT TO 2010
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4382342 most recent, Omni responded, but thread was never closed and I fully agree with OP
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4535463 wrong way of fixing the section
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4415811 closed with no response
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3964517 thread was never closed, wrong way of fixing the section anyways
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3525136 Omni said to make your own forum :/ Bad way of fixing it anyways
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3391274 No response to fixing the crypto section, he kind of had a good idea
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2981377 I just report these threads and they get junked
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2943490 No response from either staff or mentors, thread is still open
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2548868 I completely agreed with Paradoxum's response, but thread was closed and no staff response (this is 2012).
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2166348 Thread was closed by Para, nothing happened from it, I somewhat agree with the OP
https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=244827 This thread was made 3 months after the section was created. Omni, you said that it wasn't that bad back then, but trust me, it's bad now. Also, the thread was never closed.


The cryptography section currently has two completely different subjects that compete with each other. Crypters, and cryptography. Can crypters be considered cryptography? Technically yes, but somewhere around 95%+ of the threads that are about crypters ask about eithe

• Why doesn't abc crypter work
  


• what is the best crypter
  


• Is this abc crypter compatible with xyz program
  


• Why isn't abc crypter FUD
  

And the worst of all

• I need free crypt plox where is free crypt y dont i get free crypt give me free crypt now
  

None of those threads involve cryptography. None.

Do you want to know what real cryptography is? Take a peek into this thread -> https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4817797
It's a transposition cipher that bases its keys on random noise. If you understand none of that, don't worry, most do not. However, that is actual cryptography. When people ask if you can crack a hash, that is real cryptography. When people ask how do I decrypt my drive after I forgot the password, that is real cryptography.

Asking about FUD crypters is not.

Now, to get into the actual logistics, and whether or not there would still be activity in both sections. I think that after the split, there would be an increased activity in the crypto section. There have been a lot of people who have told me through PMs, Skype, IRC, and on posts in HF that since the crypto section has been overrun by LQ questions regarding crypters, they are afraid of posting a question since it will most likely disappear. And for the most part, that is completely true. Thankfully, w34k, TDWC, Forezza, Chick3nman, and Tony Spilotro (and others) have tried to help, but even with them it's not enough. I have had to pm different staff more than a couple of times to shut down threads since they were getting out of hand, and it generally feels like the section is always about to spiral out of control.

Here is a current screenshot of the cryptography section:
Spoiler (Click to View)


Six of those threads deal with cryptography; 13 do not. I have reported two of them since one is sales trashing and the other is in the wrong forum.

However, to prove that there would be enough activity after a split, I took screenshots for an entire week's worth of posts.
These are in the next spoiler. Warning, they are a little bit big. To make the analysis easier, cryptography related threads will have blue marks, and crypter threads will have red marks. I added comments to threads if I felt they were needed.
Spoiler (Click to View)

1 crypto
2 crypter
5 crypter stickies(not included in count)


8 crypto
13 crypter


14 crypto
16 crypter


17 crypto
13 crypter


17 crypto
11 crypter
2 wrong section

5 crypto
3 crypter

Total count for the week:
62 crypto threads
58 crypter threads

Now if you say the average month is 30 days long, to figure out the average amount of threads per month you do 30/7 * threads in a week =
265.7 crypto threads per month
248.5 crypter threads per month
And a lot of junked posts and threads, ty to the stafff/admins who do that.

Since those numbers seem to be a little bit high I'll round them down to the nearest 10th, which still gets you 260 crypto threads and 240 crypter threads.
To make a new section, you normally need 100 new threads per month. In this case, we have over 200. This definitely qualifies for an entire new section, assuming that the 100 threads per month holds true.

What would the new section look like? (and where it would go)
Spoiler (Click to View)
Crypters would be under the Hacking Tools and Programs, along with RATs and Keyloggers
Things that should be allowed in the planned section: the discussion of and links to programs which either crypt programs, pack programs, spoof extensions, change the file icon, or bind programs to other programs.



The threads that would be moved into the section from the cryptography section would be any thread's OP that has one of the following keywords: "FDE" "crypter" "scanner". Considering that you are naming a new section "crypter" I highly doubt many users would post the wrong forum, but considering I already report around 30 posts in that section a week, I doubt there would be that much of a difference. If someone would actually be needed to just move the thread, from the crypto section into a new crypter section, I know a couple of member who would be more than happy to do so, myself included.

On a side note, if you do accept this suggestion, how about renaming the "Cryptography and Encryption Market" to "Crypter Market"? I don't see anything other than crypters in there.

Thank you for reading my suggestion.

[JDCL]

I'm going to be a little bit harsh here, but if it was already answered, why would you make another thread? Things like this don't change because of a new layout on a thread. I understand that you may have worked hard on the thread, but if it was denied before, it will probably be denied again.

[crazyycast13]

I'm going to be a little bit harsh here, but if it was already answered, why would you make another thread? Things like this don't change because of a new layout on a thread. I understand that you may have worked hard on the thread, but if it was denied before, it will probably be denied again.

It was never fully denied.
Omni's last post on the subject:

While I can agree with the intent of your suggestion it's also not practical. It would impossible to split threads. And if we did what would be left in the Cryptography section? Then we'd also have to deal with constant incorrectly posted threads to move.

Just not worth it.

But maybe I will consider a subforum for a more direct topic.

A) I showed that you could move threads (I've seen him do it before when he made the anonymity section)
B) The cryptography section would still be active
C) There are already a lot of things I report, and I don't think it would make a dent. Anyways, it's kind of hard to post a thread about crypters in the wrong section if there is a section specifically devoted to crypters.

[JDCL]

It was never fully denied.
Omni's last post on the subject:

A) I showed that you could move threads (I've seen him do it before when he made the anonymity section)
B) The cryptography section would still be active
C) There are already a lot of things I report, and I don't think it would make a dent. Anyways, it's kind of hard to post a thread about crypters in the wrong section if there is a section specifically devoted to crypters.

Im going to use a bit of a weird example here, but if you've ever played runescape, you would know that when they came out with the EOC (Evolution of Combat), they received bad ratings on it. They then created (or re-released) and old and more favorable version of the game. Though the company that created it knew it would split the community in half, they went forward with it. Well, after about a month, more then 400,000 people switched from the normal (EOC) runescape to the 07 recreation. This really killed the activity of the EOC and it became an extremely unfavorable game compared to the 07 version.

What im trying to say is that if this happened, there is absolutely no guarantee that it will be an even split between the two topics. Although it may help some of the posts, the overall risk of doing this for the sake of just separating the two topics is just too high. If something were to happen with the activity, the damage would be done and the payout wouldn't be worth the cause.

But even so, i wish you the best of luck with your suggestion. Im off for the night.

[Autocorrect]

Fully supported. It's already an even split and the high amount of poorly coded crypters are killing the section.

[KillαMuvz]

I would support this. Though splitting forums may be too much of an effort even just creating a fresh new subforum for crypters would also be a great action.

[Autocorrect]

Also, this helps with the fact that cryptography shouldn't really be linked to blackhat activities, which in this section, it is.

[crazyycast13]

I would support this. Though splitting forums may be too much of an effort even just creating a fresh new subforum for crypters would also be a great action.

Even though splitting th section down the middle would take a while, I feel that it would be a better fix. By completely removing crypters from cryptography section both sections would do better instead of as it is right now, competing to be on top of the section.

Since the only threads that are made about crypters are skid level questions, I feel that they have no place in the cryptography section.

[TheDubWubCub]

As always, you'll have my support for this.

This section has been slowly going through it's version of mitosis, and the crucial split it must make won't kill off or weaken each other, but they will instead thrive as the result.

The amount of crypter threads aren't to be worried about, they'll keep coming.

More pertinent crypto threads aren't going away either, but I'm assuming the concern is more focused upon whether or not the flow of these threads will actually remain constant or increase/decrease.

This split offers both parties to flourish and to not compete against each other, there's simply too much to discuss and share for each of them to weaken or die off; it's highly unlikely within my eyes and others.

Considering the potential benefits and the possible cons, I am an advocate for the split.

[djaqib209]

i support this as well u that page is flooded with cypters sales

[Aura]

I support that suggestion. If there's someone who knows the Cryptography section, it's crazyycast. The suggestion's good and the facts are there, so I don't know why it would be refused.

[MrOrang]

Really supporting crazycast here. Its looks like an utter mess. Wanted to post some things in there but decided not to.

Would be nice if the section got cleaner.

[JuiceProductions]

I deff support this and it'd be good if you placed a temp ban on the users that posted in the wrong section. It gets annoying to see the same 20 threads when they could've just searched and saw for themselves.

[iDuL]

I believe you can bring justice to the section OP.

[crazyycast13]

I believe you can bring justice to the section OP.

Thanks man, it's just something that needs to be done for the good of the section. Honestly, when I see all these threads about "Does ABC crypter work with luminosity/Plasma Rat", I feel that being a sf the "Advanced Hacking" is just an inside joke.